No bother man I’m not wanting an argument with anyone. We all want the same end game just have different gripes to get there
Come on Chunks get with the program....TM deliberately picks the worse team....he watches O9 everyday of the week...his job is on the line....made him captain so that is the excuse he won't drop him.....maybe your right he can't be too bad then
Maybe - one of our new boys scored at the weekend and they’ve only had 1 game It wouldn’t affect our goals scored but without a liability at the back we could’ve picked up more points and not be 13 points behind a newly promoted team. Every set piece we got we looked dangerous at the weekend and it’s been a long time since that’s happened. I think you’re misunderstanding and think I want to replace our whole style of football by putting a bigger, natural CB in. That’s not the case at all I just want someone good on the ball who’s actually a CB and offers us more defensive stability whilst also giving us an attacking threat from set pieces.
So would we all but there's little evidence we have that player. Our defending, compared to Ipswich, Southampton, Preston, Boro, etc, is excellent but you're still whinging. We haven't conceded, from a dead ball, in the last three games but you're still whinging. Why have two massive central defenders, at home, when the opposition sit back and only attack when they go behind.
Conceded from a corner against Leicester, lost 1-0. Conceded from a corner against Cardiff, lost 1-0. Conceded from a corner against Stoke, lost 2-1. 3 games off the top of my head without bothering to even look into the rest. Teams, including those who play a lot better football than us at a much higher level, have big CB’s for a reason. We aren’t top of the league therefore we have to improve and that’s clearly something we need to improve on. We control the game then look like conceding the first time a team come forward or win a corner there’s no way anyone can disagree with that.
I think I've made it clear i'm not TM's biggest fan but I completely understand why O'Nien plays. Take Saturday for example, we really struggled to break Birminghams high press and we continually placed Ekwah under pressure passing to him. O'Nien allows us to get up the pitch much quicker, through passing and carrying the ball (his ball progression stats for both passing and carrying are crazy good for a CB). Also, looking at how many aerial duels or tackles he makes per game is pointless because teams who have the ball more their defenders aren't being called upon too often. BUT, there is no question that he is a liability defending set pieces and crosses in open play. In terms of the set pieces I really think that is a coaching problem because why he ends up marking the oppositions tallest player most of the time baffles me. He absolutely needs to learn how to defend without grabbing and wrestling as it will and has cost us. I also don't like the way he gets caught out diving in and being spun way too easily but I have not seen that much this season so I think he has cut that out. I can see why people want him out of the team but frankly as long as TM is here and we are playing this style of football, O'Nien will be playing as we do not have a CB who contributes to build up play like he does, and Mowbray would rather win 5-4 over 1-0. Also, some of the snipes from people on both sides of the debate on here are pretty pathetic.
No please, look at the rest, I doubt you'll be able to back up your claims. As I've clearly shown our defense is better than most of the division. Prove me wrong if you can. It seems some people want us to go back to two massive centre backs, two full backs and Lee Cattermole in front of the defence ... ... sorry but I've had enough of dinosaur tactics and want something more progressive and exciting. Seriously, how exciting is two monsters in central defence and a big lad up front?
Based on what though? Goals conceded? I can’t argue against that the numbers speak for themselves but you’re a fool to look at that only, especially barely a third of the way into the season. As mentioned there’s 5/6 teams around us who’ve conceded 1 or 2 less than us which can easily be changed in a game meaning our “joint 4th best defence” in the league in now a mid table defensive record. If you have 70% of the ball and limit the opposition to a handful of shots every game and they score then that’s poor imo. If we were under the cosh every game for 90 minutes and had conceded the same amount of goals then fair enough I’d agree. Where do we improve when apparently the midfield doesn’t need changing nor does the defence.. we have the 2 best wingers in the league, the best CB in the division in Ballard then his mate the best CB for possession based football in O’nien..?
Absolutely agree. Last season, Huggins returned v Brom after a massive injury lay off and Bacuna kicked lumps out of him. One shocking kick out which was a straight red too, ref gave a goal kick! One if those players I’d quite happily celebrate getting injured. There’s a few on my list, he’s definitely there some great points, but the “signed to sit on the bench” is the one that jumps out. Totally agree, but I also think that having good players waiting in the wings pushes those who already have the shirt. Which is the way it should be. As you say, great problems to have
So.. our “joint 4th best defence” has “5 or 6 teams who have conceded 1 less”? Correct me if I’m wrong, but surely that would make our defence the 6th or 7th best? Anyhow, instead of making stuff up to make an argument, here are some facts. If you look positively, there are only 3 teams who have conceded less (research, not “5/6”), one of those is top of the league, another 3rd. Both of which have premier league players at their clubs (Leicester and Leeds). The other, Bristol City, have only scored 16 and are well behind us. So, in a game or two, we could have a top of the league defence, rather than the “mid table” spin you put on it. We have a defence better than 3 of the 5 above us, and the 4th best goal difference in the league. Prove me wrong
I might have said this elsewhere but he also poked Amad in the eye and Amad needed lengthy treatment in the same game, but once again no action from the ref, at least he didnt book Amad for sticking his eye on the the b*****ds finger. Immune is our Bacuna or should that be Backanda .
If we could play 12 men, I'd play the exact team, but with Seelt, Ballard and O9 as a back 3. O9 definitely has some qualities that the other 2 don't, but we are weaker a set pieces when he is in the team (you could argue that with Ballard, Cirkin, Alese, Jobe etc we should have enough tall players to defend better) Feels as though O9 will always divide opinion. Is he one of the best 11 players at the club? No. Is he probably the best professional and dedicated member of the squad? Yes It's a tricky one
“Prove me wrong” What like I’ve just done in regards to us dropping points from set pieces?? Apologies, 5/6 conceded 1 or 2 more you got the point you didn’t have try your absolute hardest to pretend I’m making stuff up mate.. This changes on a weekly basis as you’ve said which is why you can’t just look at the goals conceded in my opinion, I’m not sure why you’ve stated I’m making stuff up just to then back up my point? Cardiff had a “better defence” than us before the weekend, now they don’t. They might again after the next game, is that how you’re basing “the best defences” really? One that changes every week? If it was there’d be about 10 different differences that are “the best” over a season. Spurs had the best defence in the PL a few weeks ago, now it’s 5th with only a single goal conceded less than 3 teams and 2 goals less than 3 teams - including Everton. A bad result could against Villa could drop them down to having the 11/12th “worst defence” in the league. Other than us squabbling over a single stat that can be deciphered in different ways if you bother to look into other specifics based on chance creation do you not just watch us and see teams cut through us on the odd occasion we give the ball away? We don’t ship loads of goals because the other team rarely has the ball but we can definitely improve at the back. As I’ve already mentioned the same people claim we have world class Dan Neil, the best wingers in the league, best defenders etc so why are we 13 points behind a newly promoted team? You prove me wrong instead of agreeing with my point then asking me to prove you wrong..
I agree with all of this. I see what O’nien brings I don’t deny that but your comment sums up our need for a proper DM. It shouldn’t be on the CB to bring the ball out well beyond the half way line constantly. How often do you see Ruben Dias in the opponents final third getting caught out when City lose the ball? Rodri is there to take the ball off the defence and work in pockets to create space all game, Rice is for Arsenal, Bruno G is for the mags - who incidentally haven’t won a single game that he hasn’t started since joining that’s how important the role is. They play as far back as the CB’s a lot of the time.
So you’re saying that conceding less goals does not mean you have a better defence? Interesting. Seems most football managers would disagree
Regarding this discussion/argument about Onions' (or anybody's) qualities and deficiencies, I can't understand why anybody would use statistics meticulously to highlight his faults to 'prove a point' and to encourage others to feel negatively about him (one of our players) rather than just enjoying the whole of what S.A.F.C. are giving us at the moment and looking at the many positives that are obvious and that most of us can see
https://www.a-love-supreme.com/single-post/praise-for-seelt BY ADAM GRANOFSKY PRAISE FOR SEELT please log in to view this image Tony Mowbray has praised Jenson Seelt for slotting in so seamlessly at the back, and showing great quality on the ball to evade Birmingham's high press. COMPETITION AT THE BACK "I thought Jenson was good. In our minds, we've been wanting to get him on the pitch but it's difficult [with Ballard and O'Nien's form]." GREAT ON THE BALL "Really, he was going to come on and play.. he can play holding midfield and we thought he would come on and roll into midfield like we do with Trai Hume often. Jenson can do that because he's so talented with the ball at his feet. Today he stood up to the test, you could see at times that it was a bit quick when they really jumped on us and pressed, there were times when it was a fraction of a second away from us being caught on the ball." PLEASED FOR THEM BOTH "Generally, he was good. Young players who haven't played at the level, you expect it [some challenges]. They have to get up to speed and I'm so pleased for both Jenson and Nectar that they helped us get to the win and both looked fine generally. I asked the team to get right on the front foot so that the defenders didn't have to do too much, but we got a bit sloppy on the ball at times and so the defenders had to do their jobs. Generally, they did that."
