Ronaldo always stated that it was his ambition to play for Real Madrid and was often quoted as saying his mother wanted to see him play for Real Madrid... its got nothing to do with Fergusons lack of motivational skills and I'm not sure why you would choose such as example as it makes your arguement look quite flimsy. Ronaldo always said he wanted to play for Real... Modric was quoted as saying he wanted to leave Spurs for champions league football, not for money. The money was thrown at Modric to quieten him down. The pay rise at Spurs wasn't his ultimate agenda so once again your using a poor example. Tevez isn't a law unto himself, he wants to leave City because he doesn't want to be at City, nothing to do with money. If Bent was only looking for money, why did he not take up the offer of a pay rise and move to Turkey? Also, your still not explaining why his form was very poor at Sunderland for a whole 3 months. Your failing to recognise that Bent revelled as being the main man, and after Bruce began to select and favour Gyan... Bent and Gyan didn't work well together and hence Bent experienced a loss of form. Both the club and Bent realised that the best way forward was to go their seperate ways (as Bruce opted to prefer Gyan). No need to overly complicate an issue which is actually quite simple. As far as Gyan is concerned... Bruce placed his long-term faith in Gyan but failed to anticipate that he could potentially lose his interest the moment Mensah and Muntari were shown the door.
I don't see why the Ronaldo comparison is flimsy. He will undoubtedly earn more at Real Madrid than he did at Man Utd - this happened also for Beckham. The fact he may have have stated he wanted to play for Real Madrid does not discount the money argument. Its a win win situation for him. With Tevez, I mention him only because you brought him into he discussion. Yes, Tevez does not want to play for Man City. But, he did not want to play for West Ham, or Man Utd. That's why he's a law unto himself. I don't think he knows what he wants. Modric : you've stated that Tottenham have thrown money at him, in order to keep him quiet. So, money does have an effect. And as before, Bent & Gyan are both earning more than they were with us.
It's plainly obvious that your not even thinking about what I'm writing and your merely replying just the for the sake of replying, which ofcourse is entirely your free will to follow such a course in life. Ronaldo has always stated that his ultimate desire was to play for Real Madrid. Ronaldo never at any point said that he would only play for Real Madrid if the money was right. If he did, please show me the quotes. I called your bluff on Modric, (play a canny game of poker) because Modric never actually recieved a pay rise before the transfer window closed. Read the link... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14965942.stm Contrary to your understanding of Tevez, Tevez actually does know what he wants... that being a return to his family in Argentina however he finds himself locked into a contract that he himself agreed to but clearly wishes he hadn't agreed to. Money not an issue for Tevez. Back to Bent and Sunderland... It was your choice to use the 'rumours' of a big pay deal on offer from a Turkish club. If Bent's only interest is money, why did he not leave for Turkey? Explain that one? Once again, you completely forget to think about the reason why Bent's form was so poor and I offered you the explanation. Bent didn't play well with Gyan and as a result he lost his form. Bruce opted to sell Bent and retain Gyan as Bruce thought that was the best way to manage the situation that he found himself having to attend to, the rest is history.
Simple, season finishing in Yanks land, go and loan Beckham, Henry and Donovan... Sorted....that'll be £50k a week thanks.
I still think I present a cogent argument, which you have not been able to explain away. You cannot deny both Bent & Gyan received more money, yet you still try and make suppositions why they left. I don't think you can present any facts to support your argument, only hearsay. The facts are that Bent & Gyan are now earning more money. Modric has been offered more money. And I don't think the best way to have a discussion is to start hurling insults (not thinking about what you write etc). That shows that sign of someone losing an argument.
Like ronaldo at Madrid, fabregas always wanted to play for Barca and actually took a pay cut to do so. It doesn't make SAF or Wenger bad managers either. Bruce has lost Cana, bent, Gyan and cashed in on Jordan in 12 months. That doesn't make him a bad manager. The difference is man utd and arsenal replaced them and Bruce didn't. That makes him a ****ing useless ****** of a manager imo.
I didn't 'hurl an insult' towards you in any shape or form. You havn't answered my questions with any level of accuracy whatsoever which leads me to believe that you arn't thinking about what I'm writing. Now you accuse myself of 'hurling insults' towards yourself which suggests to me that this is the best 'cogent' response that you appear to be capable of. In all of our exchanges, I'm struggling to understand what exactly the point is that you are attempting to highlight. Perhaps you might narrow it all down in simple terms so us lesser illuminated mortals are able to comprehend your reasoning, and hence assist my attempt to understand your 'cogency'. Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are trying to say is that the state of our affairs is purely down to Bent and Gyan wanting more money? Is this also the reason why we are playing poor football this season too, having won 2 from 12? Perhaps Ji and Wickham want more money too?
OK Bent & Gyan - left because of money. I think that's fairly accurate, as both now earn considerably more. Bent sulking because he wasn't the main man cannot be supported by facts. I don't know why you cannot not accept this. And yes, Bent & Gyan leaving has left a void up front. This has been the difference between winning & drawing in matches. Replacements are difficult to come by. And our performances, whilst not brilliant, have not been as bad as some make out. As for Ji & Wickham. it's far to early to make judgment - neither has had a run of matches. I don't see that there has been any lack of effort on their part.
Ok I can accept that except for one point and now that we have cleaned up the wider issues we can now focus on Sunderland once again. Bent played woeful for 3 months and I'm absolutely sure there is more to this than the fact that he is now earning more money at Villa. I'm absolutely certain that Bent didn't specifically intend to play asthough he couldn't wait to leave the club, just because he wasn't offerred a pay rise. I don't think of Bent as being such a lowly person as to suggest that his performances were this poor, purely based upon not recieving a pay rise. IMHO there is far more to this and I offered a perfectly resonable explanation. It was very clear to any person that watched the football last season that Bent and Gyan didn't click... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to arrive at the conclusion that Bent's poor form coincided with Gyans arrival, it was clear for all to see. Bruce sold Bent and kept Gyan... well until September. Bruce appears to have a very high turnover of players at this club... I don't think that is very healthy. I also recall Bruce having a major fallout with Paul Scharner at Wigan which suggests to me that his man-management skills may potentially be questionable and a possible cause for such a high turnover at SAFC and I'm entitled to that belief. I would like to see Sunderland maximise our potential and I don't see Steve Bruce as being the right man for the job. Do you believe Steve Bruce is the right man for the job? Do you have any doubts about what you have seen occur at SAFC since January, any at all?
At the moment I think we should continue with Bruce. The easy part is getting rid of him. Replacing him is something else altogether. I have many memories of watching us under Sergeant Wilko, McCarthy & many others (remember Malcolm Crosby) have left their scars. Now that was bad. I just think that, with all the money washing around the top of the Premier League, we are amongst a large group fighting for the crumbs off the table & will mostly finish around 10th to 15th. I think other managers, with the same money, would achieve no more than Bruce. And I think that part of the high turnover of players is Bruce getting rid of some the dead wood from the Keane era. Yes we have also lost important players but I think that is due to factors beyond Bruce's control.
Well I respect your position and perhaps we are destined for 10th-15th place, personally I hope this isn't the case. I think SAFC are capable of making a fist of a Europa league position under a manager who is able to demonstrate the confidence to play 4-4-2 at home against the likes of Fulham. I fear that under Bruce we could finish lower than 15th and that is based upon what we are witnessing right now as each week passes by. It is a very concerning situation... If we are going to aim for 10-15th, just let us do it with an attack minded central midfielder playing 4-4-2... If Bruce was able/willing to do this then he would of had my full support and at one point did. However based upon what I have seen as a SAFC fan in the last 2.5 years along with studying his managemental resume, I just don't see it happening. I think some managers are better than other managers and I also think that a better manager than Bruce would do a better job, given the same players. I don't think Steve Bruce is the pinnacle of our aspirations and at £3 million a year, he costs a helluva lot of money. Perhaps that is why is isn't being sacked as it would cost us £9 million... Thats enough money to buy a Peter Crouch, something Bruce tried his utmost to achieve. Hmmm food for thought.
Seeing as Sunderland and Man City are the only teams in the league who have yet to lose by more than one goal...I doubt it
Quite, whatever happens. I do wonder... I recall when Sir Niall made it clear that Steve Bruce wouldn't be sacked even if we were to be relegated. Perhaps that is due to the financial commitment of his £3 million annual salary. If/when the chants of 'Bruce out' increase in amplitude, I would like to see Steve Bruce make the honourable decision, hypothetically speaking ofcourse. They started on Saturday and if Bruce is to remain, it's going to get awfully bleak.
