Where did I say they weren't? I commented on their experience levels. I called Twine a young player but I also clarified I was talking in terms of level he'd played at.
Your first line says twine is a young player....if it's only to do with the level he's played at and nothing to do with age difference, why's there a need to start your point with "I suppose the difference is he's a young player and...."
Because he's a player still developing? He's still going through the levels and going up the leagues. If we signed Jude Bellingham would we expect another 20 year old on our books to be just as developed? If anything the fact Vinagre has played at a higher level at his age makes his lack of performances even worse. Why would we expect to need him to develop with us to be able to play in the Championship when he's previously played PL football? Obviously the distinction with Twine is that he hasn't played much Championship football before this season. Thought that was pretty obvious.
Get ready for a load of deflection waffle and being told you are not erudite enough to grasp the sophistication of Syd’s pronouncements.
I agree so far he hasn't reached the expected levels, but Wednesday he did have an impact on the game. His clever thinking helped Delap get that goal, if you watched the defender wanted to go wide, but Twine saw that and blocked off that option, which made the defender's only option was to put it out of play or play back to the keeper, Twine had already seen Delap had gambled on the pass back, the rest is history. He also got the assist for Jaden goal, okay it wasn't a defence spitting pass, but nevertheless overall I thought he had a good game, bar him missing that goal chance.
I think Twine's had far too much stick about that goal chance he had. He was caught in 2 minds, slightly later on the ball than he'd have liked and Ruddy, who's a big unit, was quick off his line.
I did feel Delap could have passed the ball slightly closer to him, whereas he did put it probably slightly too far in front., which gave Ruddy that bit more time to get out.
I should have used inexperienced instead of young, you're right, that distracted from my point. 24 isn't particularly young. The discussion was about experience levels and needing to develop loan players, I thought it was pretty clear what we were talking about but I guess not. This board gets a bit hung up on semantics rather than the point being made at times, it's quite painful.
He definitely has some class. He wouldn't have had the career he's had to date if he didn't. The first time I saw him play was the first half against Doncaster and he was by far the best player on the pitch that half. I think it got lost under the other narratives of that game but he really was a cut above in that half, before going off at half time. With his recent performances it's almost like he doesn't quite fit in. Against Southampton he kept giving Philogene an overlapping option and Jaden kept ignoring him. For all the ball we had, I don't remember a meaningful attacking contribution from him that game. Sometimes it was his final ball but a lot of the time it was just him not really being involved. And that sort of sums up his career here so far really, he hasn't done a lot badly but he just hasn't done a lot of anything. Plymouth game he was essentially our left winger in possession and got loads of the ball, kept beating his man but then every time seemed unsure about crossing it, think he was subbed off for Coyle eventually, again leaving me unsure what I'd really watched him do for the last hour. Maybe in time his game will become more clear but at the moment it's just hard to see what he does.
Sone players just don't suit certain teams/leagues/countries.... Maybe that's the case with him and English leagues
Twine is young and inexperienced so needs time to develop. Vinagre is young and experienced so shouldn't need time to develop. Are we able to move on now?
Technically you could say vinsgre is the inexperienced one, twine has over twice the number of career apprentices.... Grabs popcorn
