But Israel does build bomb shelters for Israelis Which Hamas, an organisation that receives millions upon millions of dollars annually doesn't do for Palestinians.
Stop trying to lick Treble's arse ... My position hasn't changed - indeed the UN Secretary General has just paraphrased it with great eloquence - as Treble demonstrated... ... and as for bloody massacres... what the **** do you think the Israelis have been doing? ...6,500 deaths, the majority not just civilians but women and kids ... that's not unfortunate collateral damage - it's brutal state terrorism and phase 1 of a clumsy and deliberate ethnic cleansing initiative ... be good to see you condemn it at some stage ...
Hamas shoot bombs at Israel, which Israeli citizens survive as they're hiding in shelters built for them by the Israeli government. The Hamas bombs target houses and public places. Israel shoots missiles at Gaza, which Gazans are killed within their thousands, because they huddle together in apartments and public places. As, Hamas the master tunnel builders, cannot be ****ed to build a bomb shelter. Instead, Israel needs to send texts to Palestinians, telling them where to stand. Hamas sends out tweets in response, telling them to stay put and not leave bomb targets. So, your enemy tells you to leave for a safe place and your elected officials tell you to stay put and be blown up Entire situation is a ****ing disgrace. Cannot believe excuses are being made for such useless redneck ****s like these fundamentalist religious morons.
Read back you lazy old fool Condemned it plenty, was seething in anger watching it. You even replied too it.
Your whole premise is back to front. I don't need to sell it to you, I don't need to sell it to Israel. You're not doing anyone a favour here, you're abiding by international law. The problems you describe, are partly of Israel's own making. A point you keep conveniently choose to ignore. Hamas, it's funding, it's ability to build the arsenal it has, its infrastructure, has been enabled by Israel BECAUSE Hamas's presence has meant the idea of a two state solution could never be realised. If Hamas isn't an honest participant in this, then neither is this corrupt democratic Israeli government. Even though the average Palestinian and average Israeli may very well be, the same ppl you want to convince, but the reality is who gives a fck about them eh? You know how the settlement gets done? Not through trying to sell something to Israel, but by a firm and honest broker. Namely the U.S. actually having the balls to treat both sides equally but ruthlessly if they have to. The U.S. has huge leverage over both, beginning with the $3bn military aid they provide Israel with annually, and the $200m a year to Palestinians, as well as turning the tap off to Hamas through players like Qatar. I know there's this convenient narrative that Hamas only wants to destroy all jews, but the position of their political wing is far more malleable and has moved considerably over the years. You can see it often in what they aren't doing than what they are. In June when the U.S.A were taking on Islamic Jihad in Gaza, Hamas stayed out of it. It was the same in 2019 and 2022. On Jerusalem Day when far right Israeli nationalists marched through the West Bank close to Al Aqsa, Hamas said a few words but did nothing against clear provocation. This isn't a sudden change of direction, it's been gradual. They initially opposed the Oslo Accords, they were beginning to work within its framework through indirect talks with Israel. And even though it doesn't recognise Israel it has accepted the idea of a phased solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as a basis for a political settlement. A settlement they know would mean the recognition of the state of Israel which would go a heck of a way towards resolving Israel's security concerns as part of an overall settlement. But all of this comes from the will of 3rd parties and so-called international community, namely the U.S. playing hardball and making it happen. But none of that will happen. Because when this is all over, everyone will forget about it. It won't be in the public eye anymore. You know the monumental paradox about the middle east conflict. When it's not making the news, ppl are still dying (usually the Palestinians) and nobody's interested in talking about getting a settlement. THEN every few years when it all kicks off and everyone's talking about it, the Israelis and their sympathisers say "now's not the time to talk about getting a settlement". Which makes you think, why? Who does the status quo really serve here. Btw I don't doubt your intentions, I hope you can appreciate we may want the same thing but we just see it from opposing positions here and now... but not always.
Now you're grasping. They shouldn't need them, but they do, and they aren't building them. Israel shouldn't need them by your logic, but they do and they do build them. There is a absolutely no logical defence for Hamas not building bomb shelters, they can obviously do it and desperately need it for people.
This was exactly the way the disengagement from Gaza was sold to the public and the world and that move turned out splendidly for all involved, didn't it? Since then, understandably, the sentiment among much of the Israeli public has been 'fool me once, shame on me...'.
"Disengagement" does not mean an end to occupation when you're blockaded by air, land and sea. And I think you underestimate the bond between the palestinians in Gaza and the palestinians in the West Bank. These aren't seperate entities they are connected through deep rooted identity, family connections, history, and religion. You can't just disengage from Gaza and expect the palestinians there to say thank you very much oh great Israel and fck the West Bank. The destruction of homes, the midnight raids and rendition of civilians into prisons, the illegal settlements, not to mention the holy sites, make the West Bank the central pivot of the 'armed struggle'.
International law isn't the issue. Again, with respect, like Mr Guterres you seem to be under the impression that the whole conflict can be swept away with the flourish of a pen. Press a button and all Israelis withdraw to the '67 borders and we all gather round and sing kumbaya. It just isn't that simple. Go back to the questions I posed to Pinkie. You haven't addressed any of them, not even in the slightest. Without addressing them, you don't have the Israeli public. Without the Israeli public, you get people like Netanyahu taking office again and again. Without the Israeli public, no sane government is going to do what international law tells it to do, and for good reason. I refer you back to the Golan Heights talks in 99/00. International law still requires Israel to return the territory to Syria. Only the USA has recognised it as Israeli sovereign territory. Would you, as someone hoping to sway the Israeli public, sit there and with a straight face argue that it's high time we abided by Resolution 487 and gave one of the most strategically important areas in the entire middle east to a despotic dictatorship run by a tyrant who uses chemical weapons against his own people and is plainly a puppet for Iran? You'd be laughed off the hustings. And our friend Mr Guterres is on record as saying he thinks Israel should still give Golan back to Assad. So he has previous for being a two dimensional simpleton. You're right. The USA has the clout to make a difference. But in the post 9/11 world it's foreign policy has been confused and too often destructive. It hasn't seriously engaged with the issue since Bush's first term. Obama made a bunch of pompous speeches but did **** all, while Trump was so obviously biased it was a joke. Would the US seal ruthlessly with Israel? It tried this approach under Obama, famously refusing to use its power of veto for the first time in decades. Israel was furious, Kerry stood firm. Then ISIS swept through the region and Iran started destabilising multiple countries, and surprise surprise, America realised the same thing I've been on about for the past few days: without addressing the questions of Islamic fundamentalism and Iran, and providing Israel with genuine and real measures to meet its very legitimate security concerns, there will be no end to the occupation. If you cannot understand why this is true of any democracy, I can't help you. What Guterres and the UN and Biden and Bin Salman and Abbas and Haniyeh and Pinkie and all of them want is irrelevant. The Israeli public needs to want it too. They certainly used to, back in the 90s. But the world has shifted drastically since then. Perhaps Guterres hasn't noticed.
Like they told them the safe rout out then blew the **** out of a truck full of people using that rout?
You raise good points here ck. Now if I'm an Israeli i would want this buffer zones especially once the incidents of the past few weeks. However this will never end unless the stolen lands have been returned imo or unless all of Israel's enemies have been removed permanently. Keeping everything as it is and having these Israeli settlers doing what they want is just free recruitment to whoever wants to destroy Israel
Netanyahu saying they are preparing an operation to go in and take out Hamas. Then say's this is only the beginning so how far is he going to push? If taking out Hamas is just the beginning what is the end objective, grabbing the whole of Gaza?
I've never once mentioned 1967 borders, neither did Guterres in his speech. I don't know why you keep bringing up the Golan heights, I've not mentioned that either. Guterres simply stated that there needs to be a will to end the 56 year illegal occupation of the Palestinians. And he's right. His point, which I agree with, is that there needs to be peace talks and an agreed settlement - and the basis for that is not on a whim but driven by accepted international law. And I've told you already, convincing the Israeli public is immaterial, I think it's just another excuse tbh. They're not my problem or the Palestinian's. The Israeli public will go by what is agreed if its government is able to largely satisfy their concerns in any final settlement. It's up to an Israeli government to sell it to their public, not anyone else. And depending on what they achieve through the settlement, they can do that. BUT at least have the talks and agree a settlement to put to the public in the first place! Btw this democracy in Israel you speak of. Netanyahu came back in power a year ago. He put Ben Gvir in charge of national security, a bloke who's been convicted of violence against arabs multiple times. The majority of the Israeli public didn't want an outlaw like him in that position. On top of that he brought in ultranationalist Smotrich. And both of them aggressively pushed for more jewish settlements in the west bank aggrevating the palestinians. This is what Israeli democracy means for the Palestinians, and it's irrespective of what the Israelis want or don't want. As for the Americans, the first part we're agreed on, post 9/11 the whole issue around the israel/palestinian conflict has been kicked into the long grass. The second part, nope sorry that's not correct. The spread of ISIS had absolutely zero sum impact on any negotiations between Israel/Palestinians. Iran is in direct opposition to ISIS, as is Asad in Syria. Furthermore Iran was largely playing ball because of the lucrative deal and lifting of sanctions through the Nuclear deal, until Trump came along and scuppered that - backed and fuelled by Israel I might add. The only thing influencing America's ability to act as an honest, but ruthless broker in this, is internal pressures and internal politics. The rest is just smoke and mirrors. This notion of trying to make peace with neighbours like Saudi, or sorting out Iran, and islamic extremism BEFORE engaging in any discussions for a two state solution is never going to work. For a start it's extremely insulting to the Palestinians because it then becomes about the arrogance of meeting all the desires of Israel BEFORE meeting their obligations to provide a settlement to the Palestinians. As I've said before (when you said I was putting words in your mouth but clearly I'm not) their negotiations should NOT be dependent on any of that. Secondly, which directly leads on from my first point, there is little doubt that a big part of the motivation for the 7th Oct attacks is because of Israel's attempts to normalise relations with its neighbours (Saudi in this case) first whilst seemingly appearing to denegrade the importance of any resolution with the Palestinians. And that motivation will have come from ALL of the reasons I've stated in my first point. And if you can't see that then I think you're avoiding the reality here. Honestly, when I read what you write, I just see the same tired old reasons (and some new ones) to keep kicking the can down the road. I mean, the idea that we must rid the world of islamic extremism first is laughable, and the fact half of it is fuelled by Israel bombing the **** out of the palestinians and taking over East Jerusalem, makes it even more ridiculous. But maybe it is all about continuously kicking the can down the road until eventually bit by bit the ethnic cleansing is complete?
I think your mind isn't quite understanding the pure size and depth of these systems. This isn't a shoulder width tunnel designed for a single man. Theyre absolutely massive, they have hospitals, command senters, supplies, weapons. Everything you need for a siege. The fact you find it hard to believe they can't have huge cans of fuel in one of these tunnels is absolutely staggering and shows your mindset here. I mean, both the Japanese and the Vietcong have done this before Hamas. How can it be that hard to believe lol. Idiotic from you tbh Diego.
lol you didn’t read it did you …I named myself first and are now adding you to the list of selective reading aberdude said: ↑ he who doesn’t read or watch anything that doesn’t suit his narrative….not naming any names it’ll take me to long……I’ll start by saying me brb peej and peej again to name just a few you silly fat twat
Have you seen the aerial footage of Gaza City and the North? - would bomb shelters have saved the people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? ... because absent the radiation it is THAT level of destruction - Israel has defended the scale and intensity of the bombardment as necessary to destroy the intricate fortified network of tunnels and sheters that Hamas has underground... yet you think that bomb shelters would have somehow stopped that catastrophic number of civilian deaths? ... you are either quite dumb or just very blinkered... 2,700 Palestinian children dead ...
