WAR! What is it good for?

I said on Saturday that I never ever believed this was about hostages and although now four have been released, I'm not convinced that Israel actually cares about them, other than their immediate family and friends.

I think the only reason Israel has not annihalated the whole area is because of the pressure from other nations, as they find it more and more difficult to hide from the atrocities being highlighted in the media.

Also when you see an 85 year old lady shaking hands with her captors, that's not a good look for Western powers that try to portray them for the originally butchery commited. I've heard several times now that Israel have had more than one opportunity to have large numbers of hostages released.

I hate to say it, but I'm starting to think that the hostages are nothing more than cannon fonder to Israel and that makes them no better than the people they are declaring war with.

In short and more to the point, is Israel to blame for not actually protecting their own citizens, before and during the conflict, I think an 85 year old lady today has just put the Israeli powers to the sword.

 

It is a loaded and extremely dangerous link for anyone to be drawing, especially the Secretary General of the UN - firstly, given the body's resounding lack of success in any conflict zone anywhere in the world since its inception, but also due to the dearth of similar statements regarding other conflicts both past and present.

But first and foremost, the causal link itself is highly dangerous. It doesn't just paint the events of Oct 7th as inevitable and unavoidable, it also justifies their occurrence.

It is pure hubris to assume that they were inevitable. Were atrocities committed against Jews in Israel before the occupation? Yes. See for example the Hebron Massacre. Have various Palestinian groups disavowed or denounced atrocities committed against Jews in Israel since and despite the occupation? Yes. See for example the Muslim Brotherhood cutting ties with Hamas in the 1990's.

So the link from one to the other is not inevitable at all.

And it is lethally dangerous to consider them justified; where then is the line drawn? What degree or volume of atrocity does the occupation warrant? The death of all Israelis? And if that is 'too much', why is this so? What is not 'too much'?

Highly irresponsible and unhelpful comments and he should know better. He's one of the most powerful diplomats in the world, not a journalist.

 

If you think Israel doesn't care about hostages (dead or alive), you need to read up a lot more about the subject in Israel's history.

Even Netanyahu cares, and deeply. Not least of all because he of course lost his brother Yoni when the latter took part in rescuing hostages from Entebbe.

Any Israeli Prime Minister who shows themselves not to be prioritising the safe return of hostages is voted out of power and never returns. The topic is enormously sensitive across the Israeli public and is one of the only things everyone here agrees on. Any ground incursion into Gaza will only get off the ground here if it is done with the explicit goal of rescuing as many of the hostages as possible.

From what I've heard over here, two things are causing 'confusion'. Hamas was utterly thrown by how successful it was and only anticipated capturing a few dozen hostages max, with an aim to mainly target soldiers or council officials. With over 200 taken, it was inevitable that foreign nationals would be thrown into the mix, which immediately complicated things for Hamas as they suddenly had almost every member of the G8 on the phone to get their citizens back.

This part has created an intriguing friction between Hamas and Iran as the latter embraces the extra leverage it gets from holding foreign nationals, but the former doesn't see how it advances rather than complicate the Palestinian cause specifically, so would prefer not to have the headache of negotiating with any government other than Israel.

The other thing that has thrown all sides is how seriously the West took the events of a few weeks ago and how quickly and unanimously they responded. Even if no one was saying out loud until Blinken's speech, the western powers are hyper aware of Iranian involvement in this and are also being pushed by the Saudis to secure the region. The sudden appearance of entire carrier groups off the coast and multiple countries sending troops to the region threw a huge spanner in the works and it is clear that Hamas was counting on Hizbollah and others to join the fray pretty much immediately, but that hasn't happened and largely due to external pressure that is surprisingly open about linking any escalation to Iran.

 

Don't you start on about history lol. I'll tell you straight mate, I don't give a shhite what you think, or what Israel may have done in the past, I've not seen Israel make any positive moves in the PRESENT!

You're all stuck in the past, you saw all my previous comments and didn't bother supporting them, when I was pro Israel, but now because I give a bit of condemnation, you want to pop up. Well you can fook off, you have to take the rough with the smooth round here, this aint no ones echo chamber.

I'll be back to give more opinion as it develops, whether that is pro israeli again will depend on what I see. And what I see at the moment is a front line of troops not going anywhere, they are getting bored, fed up, you can't keep troops on a front footing for weeks and do nothing, so how long before they step down, or do they move in and kill any hostages left, which will be the telling point of what is most important to them.

I thought the 85 year old lady called it correct today, Israel didn't protect them before, and I'd say Israel is not protecting them now....but one thing that was very predictable was you piping up.

 

Oh and I forgot, stop killing women and kids.

 

I'm sure you've posted many solid posts on previous pages.

I probably haven't had a chance to read them, that's the honest truth.

I wasn't 'having a go' at this one specifically, far from it.

Apologies for the harsh tone, I've been away from my family for close to 3 weeks in an incredibly ****ty situation.

 

No problem mate. I know you are an expert on the area and I mean that, I respect your opinion, I just disagree at this moment in time and we are all big boys around here.

 

*Sabbatean shape shifting Space Lizards sponsored by the Rothschild foundation.

 

The U.N. is useless but that's irrelevant. It doesn't make his point any less true.

It wasn't a justification either. In his very next sentence he specifically stated it did not justify the attack on 7th July.

But the facts are that everything centres on precisely what he said. It's the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about. This cycle of violence will go on and on until it's addressed.

Who isn't it helpful to? The Israeli's. Bcos it sure as **** aint unhelpful for the Palestinians because they've got nothing left to lose either way. So it must be unhelpful to Israel.

And the only reason it's unhelpful to them is because it muddies the water in their relentless pursuit of revenge that's all, along with the possible threat that enough ppl might actually prick their ears and think, hold on yeh there's this cancerous tumour in the middle east causing cycles of death and destruction which at its root is a violation of countless international laws which has been going on for 56 years.

Sorry, it needs to be talked about. It's been sidelined for 25 yrs, forgotten about since 9/11. It needs to be highlighted. It should be shouted from the roof tops. Because what we're seeing now is a failure, a failure by everyone, a failure of will, which has been in a large part down to ppl not talking about it.

When this 'war' is over and thousands of innocent ppl are dead or had their lives destroyed, and Hamas haven't been wiped out, and the West Bank has had another few hundred killed, and the Israeli settlers have stolen more palestinian land, and Israel have fortified their defences ten fold to make sure they don't get caught out again, and the ethnic cleansing goes on... there's nothing more the right wing fanatics in Israel want more than for things to return to the status quo and to carry on 'as normal'. THAT is what the General Secretary's speech was unhelpful to.

Anyway men, women and children are dying in the meantime and others are going through living hell imagining what state their stolen loved ones are in, in some tunnel under gaza. All collateral damage and pawns in some master plan.

 

I don't understand none of that bolloxs either, as I don't believe in aliens or any shape shifting lizards.

 

you’d know about that sabbatean lover

I’ve read enough of your bias to realise where your loyalty lies

hail Satan init you ****

 

you should try reading the bibles en they will explain all

god must be a terrible looking creature

 

expert my arse he’s a fking white supremacy ghoul licking the arse of god’s chosen ones

He’s looking for a high ranking slave position if truth is known

 

Well... Mostly...

 

It's just Welsh stuff mostly

Not much goes on in the villages

So when Abers done ****ing his Aunt he watches a bit of Utube and goes to his job. Which must be hard graft as he disappears until the next day usually around 6.

 

Stereotypes not your thing

I could imagine that Norway is anything other than boring

 

I have to disagree - at the very least in regard to his comment that the appalling events '... did not occur in a vacuum' and the reference to '56 years of occupation' ... IMHO it's long before time that the UN (and the West) speak publicly about that ... and he, in his position, is uniquely placed to get the world to wake up and address it - who better?

Until the world addresses the occupation and illegal settlements; there is no chance that Palestinians will cease an armed struggle - and more innocents will get caught up in it.

What happened on 7th October is inexcusable and can't be justified in any way shape or form - but neither can the subsequent deaths of over 3,000 Palestinian women and kids.

The root cause behind the conflict needs to be faced up to - by the world - and a working compromise found - and I don't accept that it's impossible i.e. because movement's like Hamas are dedicated to the annihilation of Israel - just as I don't accept that Israel can annihilate Hamas by force of arms - Hamas is as much an 'idea' as a tangible body - yes Israel can kill thousands of armed militants - but their numbers will just be replenished from those Palestinian families now being bombarded ... or from Arabic populations further afield... unless the root problem is successful resolved.

 

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This is the nub of it.

We can go back to biblical times to argue about who has the right to call it their homeland, who has been displaced, suffered massacres .... and on it goes.

But right now in the here and present. Israel is illegally occupying Palestine and subjugating their people

and an occupied people have the right under international law to armed resistance

 

One mans terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.

Let’s be honest here the look over there attitude by western governments is clearly hypocritical of thy policies they pretend to stand by

puppets no less Rothschild mouth piece…..golems