No I'm not missing the point, I'm just not saying what you and others would like to hear. btw I only started when the rhetoric started against Israel on Saturday, I don't have no paticular fondness of Israel, they like most countries are of no interest to me, why would they be. People keep going on about history, but they are the very same people that would shout about those that live in the past, ie 'the war' blah fooking blah. Funny how history applies when it suits. I just thought I'd balance the argument up a bit, and Welshie gave it a go as well. I hear the arguments very clearly, I'm just not going to agree with them on the back of what happened - now if you had had this discussion with me on Friday, it would have been a completely different discussion. I'm not really that arsed about it, as I've already said my sole purpose was to balance it out a bit, I've made my point, everyone else including you has made theirs, you do realise that not606 can't actully change anything right lol
I touched on this earlier in the thread. I can't remember the quote, but it was from an Arabic scholar who basically said that Palestine is ignored when it seeks a diplomatic solution, shot and murdered when they peacefully protest, and labelled as terrorists when they fight back. So what are they to do ?
You should have just stopped there with the text, that perfectly describes Hamas actions on Saturday, they didn't do it for the people of Gaza or the general well being of Palestinians, they just did it because of their own sick minds. Supposedly for their 'brothers' or something. The same sick warped mentality that has brought terror to the streets of this country.
The religious fanatics exist on both sides mate. And unfortunately, its these people that pull the strings.
On their own nothing. You think Ukraine could do anything on their own? Unlike Ukraine though this doesn't need military intervention from anyone. The world CAN sort this out by putting the right pressure diplomatically on both parties to get it done. It does help not to have a corrupt government in charge though, which Fatah largely has become.
and countries need to defend themselves by whatever means possible from that mentality, root it out and stop it growing, destroy it, annihilate it.
It was a rhetorical question really, as it was framed, from the quote But yes, properly orchestrated international pressure and negotiation COULD see a diplomatic solution We're a million miles from it currently, largely because both Hamas and Likud want to annihilate each other, but I think that Fatah could, along with support from places like Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt could broker a peace deal with Israel. That's not a long term solution to the land division issue or a two state solution, but it would be a start.
I don't think it can happen without the U.S. If you want to apply pressure on Israel the U.S. is the only one that can do that with the £3bn in military aid they give every year as well as other support. And likewise they would apply similar pressure on Palestinians. Of course the problem isn't U.S. applying that pressure, the problem is any U.S. government having the balls to take on Israeli backers inside their own country to do it. Which is why it has to happen behind the scenes like it was in the 90's.
Religion is like anything else on the planet though, people point at it these days and scoff - but 90% of religious folk are sound as a pound. Happy to go about their life and be happy in their identity. Goes for every single religion across the board. There's also an ethnic thing here too. Israeli's are shockingly European, their suburbs are American and they are just nothing like any of their neighbours even culturally. It goes deeper than just "jews v muslims" imo. But even most Muslims outside looking in miss that point for me.
Won't happen here either, not in a million years. EU cutting funding to Palestinian citizens is the biggest shock to me, if even that lot of wimps make a move the message is clear. Israel is Western property.
Must admit I was a bit wtf when I heard EU had stopped the funding, I'd like to know more about the detail before passing judgement on them, but I really aint that arse, I can call the EU shhites without that infomation.
Hey its true, you pop over from Jordan and go from traditional middle east and bump into a new build suburb which looks like it's been dragged there from California, then you have your neighbour Heim Vitz, chatting to you in English and then your other neighbour HECHEM SHMITZER chatting away in Yiddish you think "huh where have i landed?"
Bro Russia invaded Ukraine, German sent helmets and a tent Hamas attacks Israel and they take away billions upon billions of dollars from a place that barely has food
There is still fervourent support for Zionism in the US and to a degree in Europe. Where any criticism of Israel is labelled as anti-semitic So the US and Europe still need to do a lot of soul searching about the whole issue, and indeed take some responsibility for the mess that they created in Palestine. None of that will happen from the likes of Biden, Sunak or Starmer (if he gets in) because they are too scared to divert from the expected narrative and will trot out the usual lines around 'Israel has the right to defend itself' (even though they are the illegal occupying force) and none of the actual issues will get addressed. Like you say, it will take smart diplomats and civil servants to pave the way to negotiations
Nah I won't say never. It happened in the 90's. And like I said it happened behind the scenes. Literally a select handful of ppl began it through back channels. And once you get the Israeli's to agree a deal, the pressure groups inside the U.S. disappear. Why would they object? Maybe a few yes but not enough to stop the process.
