As you say Goldie - exterminating 6 million people is genocide. This monstrous human rights violation having been carried through mostly by Germans with a lot of help from Romanians and Croats. So for this monstrous human rights violation in Europe land was taken away from Arabs and given to the Jews as some consolation - because it was the so called ''promised land'' (on the basis of them having lived there over 1,000 years previously). Unfortunately the Ottoman Empire had not kept adequate records of land ownership which proved the Palestinians as being the legitimate owners of all of what is now Israel and so the British and the Americans gave it all away. Thus starting a process which led to the Palestinians being an uprooted people scratching a living on refugee camps as stateless persons. Which led to Palestinians being treated as sub human in their own land. Unfortunately any criticism of this is automatically Anti Semitism. The creation of Israel was a mistake (and a land grab) - and it is not Anti Semitic to claim that.
Off Topic The Politics Thread
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You're right, Cologne, it isn't antisemitic to claim creating the state of Israel was a mistake. I accept there are arguments either way, but if it was a mistake, I would blame Nazi Germany before the UK and US. That was the catalyst for a Jewish homeland, even though one had been contemplated earlier and there were Jews in Palestine early in the C20th.
But we are where we are. We're left with Arabs with a mortal grudge and Jews with an existential fight. Absent something catastrophic happening leading to the next world war, Israel as a successful and prosperous country is not going anywhere.
We will have to agree to disagree.
Israeli have refused to negotiate the two state solution with Hamas, Palestinian Authority or Fatah beforehand. They will never agree to it.
I can understand both sides of this. I have a few Israeli friends. But….what has been done here to the Palestinians is disgraceful and a complete violation of human rights. They are penned in to fenced areas. Israel is systematically taking back land they agreed to give them and often through violence. The world just ignores this. Families thrown out with no justice or compensation every time the Israeli government wants to expand. You can’t do this. The conditions in these camps are appalling. Animals in a zoo are treated far better. Ain El Hilweah camp is hell on earth. The worst I’ve seen. These people aren’t even allowed return home to their land. Treating people like this is not the solution and has been challenged by the UN and several countries around the world. It was always going to breed contempt and create a determination for retribution.
On the flip side, electing Hamas in the Gaza was a red rag to the Israelis. This guaranteed a cessation of any meaningful negotiations. You can’t negotiate with terrorists and extremists.
The plan to create Israel was agreed by Britain and the US but actually created by a UN resolution (I think).
For absolute certain the land that is called Israel today was previously known as Palestine.
The world has created this problem and now must resolve it. Locking people up behind high fences in 2023 is not an acceptable solution. Without a shadow of a doubt in my mind this area will lead to a massive war in our lifetime
For absolute certain the land that is called Israel today was previously known as Palestine.
The world has created this problem and now must resolve it. Locking people up behind high fences in 2023 is not an acceptable solution. Without a shadow of a doubt in my mind this area will lead to a massive war in our lifetime
Although, historically, there have been Israelis in Palestine for thousands of years.
There is fault on all sides and it certainly feels to me as though Israel have been more at fault in my lifetime.
However, as long as they are surrounded by Nations openly saying they want to wipe them off the face of the earth, can you really blame them for being pretty defensive?
All fair points but the Muslim stance comes from the insistence of the Israeli government/people that it was always their god given land and their intent to remove the Palestinian’s from it by hook or by crook. Again, both sides as bad as each other.
No person, family or people will ever allow everything they had to be taken from them and then locked up like animals.
Don’t see any possible solution TBH
Even a 2 state solution for me won’t work. Both countries would be literally tiny and Israel would end up fencing itself in. That’s why they will never agree to it.
Jordan already gave the Palestinian’s some land (West Bank) and the Israeli’s are taking this off them inch by inch. Israeli has now permanent settlements up in Golan too, on land taken from Syria in the last war. This provides a vital water supply for them.
literally the only unlikely way that this could be resolved is with a regional solution. Jordan, Syria and perhaps Lebanon to a lesser extent, giving land and redrawing their boundaries to make new Israeli and Palestinian states that were meaningful and sustainable in size. It would have to allow water access to all. Israel is literally running out of water and Lebanon is squeezing the supply deliberately up north.
That’s the only solution Col. And it’s highly unlikely
I suspect you may be misjudging this.
Israel has sealed off Gaza from all supplies and are amassing tanks and personnel etc in what looks like preparation for an invasion.
I hope that doesn't happen because this thing could really escalate and thousands will lose their lives.
The biggest problem is this won't just be confined to Israel/Gaza, already big demos across UK and Jewish areas becoming targets. If it really goes off in Gaza retaliation will be throughout this country. A proper sh*tshow and God knows how it will end...
Looks like Israel is hammering Gaza. It’s like shooting fish in a bowl. Surely the world can’t stand back and allow this to happen. Food, water, electricity and fuel for the entire population has been turned off. This can’t be allowed,
It'll get even uglier if Israel can prove Iran was behind the terrorist attack. It occurs to me, Hamas may have trained over there
Iran as you know funds Hamas and Hezbollah. They will at the very least have sanctioned it.
The words coming from the Israeli leadership are deeply disturbing. They look like they are gearing up for a land invasion which would be catastrophic. Hezbollah militants killed today. They will respond
Two million people in Gaza, 45% of them children. The Hamas attack was disgusting and unjustifiable but this is not a proportionate response. It's equally unjustifiable.