I wonder how many times, this season, players will do exactly what Neil did and not be carded ... ... I'll start with 6 on MOTD tonight.
If Neils first yellow was a borderline red I get the feeling that the ref would have been itching to send him off. I wonder if Neil had made it to half time whether he would have come out second half? Probably, considering we have no like for like replacement for him
You might have a point there. Neil is stupid for doing it, no question. But when Cook could get away with repeated fouls, including a blatant pull back on halfway with no attempt to get the ball, when Coburn can repeatedly push, pull and niggle, including the jump into Ballard's back (again no attempt to get the ball) sparking the brawl, or Jones dissent after fouling Ba, how can Neil's dissent be considered worse? Short of calling him a goat molesting f@cking cheat or berating him right in his face, it's a one you'd take him to one side and tell him to cool it or next time he's booked again, especially as how close to half time it was. It's why I despare at refereeing right now. You should never give a ref the opportunity to send you off, but a poor ref will often take the most innocuous incident and make an incident out of nothing. Then it's how there's no consistency applied, even within the same game, that boils my piss. If Neil's to go off, so should Greenwood. Cook should have been booked early in the game for repeated fouls and Jones booked for dissent. No consistency, no common sense, officiating by checklist. It's probably telling that this one has been mostly used as a VAR official this season. Anyway, life's too short.
Refs are supposed to be tougher on dissent this season. Unfortunately Neil gave him a decision to make. They are a young team, all I want to see is they learn from their mistakes and don’t repeat them. “The threshold for a player to be shown a yellow card for dissent will be reduced this season. Whenever more than one player approaches the referee, at least one of those players, and potentially more, will be shown an automatic yellow card. Practically, any player that runs from a distance to approach the match officials will be booked.” https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...on-physical-challenges-and-add-on-wasted-time
I agree with all that as long as there is consistency which there blatantly isn’t in any on field decisions. That includes dissent, fouls, diving, encroachment on the keeper, yellow cards, offsides etc…the inconsistency is absolutely staggering. It’s becoming a game of luck and the referees should not be the main talking point after a match. Until that is sorted then referees will never get the protection or respect that they feel they deserve.
Difficult to know what say after that. Unfortunately home performances (Southampton aside) are not really improving. Starting with the same team who struggled first half against Watford was a mistake They played well with the extra man second half but we didn't help ourselves Wide open in midfield. Would have sacrificed Clarke and Roberts strengthened the midfiled and given Hemir or Rusyn a run out up top. As for the sending off it may be the letter of the law but I suspect there will be very few bookings for similar today and to give a second yellow for dissent in a heated Derby game was poor from the Ref. Anyway onwards and upwards but we have a good squad now time for a change in tactics at home
We dont lose that game with eleven men and if that sending off is legitimate the game shouldn’t have finished as most players would be sent off by the same standard. It’s a shocking decision if only applied to one player, the officials are killing the game.
Not sure if it was the slight run towards the ref that tipped it over to a yellow, (that was specifically mentioned in the pre-season rule guidance) but James McClean just been carded for Wrexham for mouthing off at the ref not giving a foul
Didn't realise that Mowbray had been booked twice https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sunderland-middlesbrough-tony-mowbray-red-31130081 Tony Mowbray launched a blistering attack on ref Jarred Gillett for sending off Dan Neil - sparking Boro’s biggest ever win at Sunderland. Michael Carrick’s men capitalised on Neil’s second yellow card just before half time, scoring four goals after the break and claiming their fifth win in a row. But fuming Mowbray said Gillett “spoiled the game”… after saying before the game he would “empathetically” manage the game. Tony Mowbray launched a blistering attack on ref Jarred Gillett for sending off Dan Neil - sparking Boro’s biggest ever win at Sunderland. Michael Carrick’s men capitalised on Neil’s second yellow card just before half time, scoring four goals after the break and claiming their fifth win in a row. But fuming Mowbray said Gillett “spoiled the game”… after saying before the game he would “empathetically” manage the game. “So we have a derby with 45,000 here and he gives a red card for gesticulating, I believe. Not a crunching, snapping tackle with studs up. Gesticulating. He spoiled it for the fans. “When a ref tells about empathy before the game then gives a red card in the last minute of the first half: It was a great game, two teams going at it. Where is the management of the players from the official? “Some refs you can say what you want to them, eff and blind to them and they eff and blind back. Mr Gillett mustn’t like it. “I will say something inappropriate to him and get a booking and I already have two and a third means I’ll miss a game so I won’t go and see him. I have told the lads to put this game in the bin.”
https://www.a-love-supreme.com/single-post/mowbray-on-ref-disasterclass BY LEWYS CARR MOWBRAY ON REF DISASTERCLASS please log in to view this image Mowbray was up in arms about the referee’s performance this afternoon, and has not held back with his opinions on the game changing second yellow card for Dan Neil. RIDICULOUS "I don't understand the logic of it. I found it ridiculous that in the manager's meeting before the game, which I have to go to, he is saying that he is going to manage the game empathetically. Local derby, 45,000, and he gives a red for gesticulating.” GOOD TEAM "Second half, you could see they are a good team and I've said that all along. They're a good team with the ball, better than a lot of teams we've faced this season. It's difficult, they're a good team and they pick the right pass in that situation. The first half was a really good game, we've had I think just about the better moments. We felt confident.” REF RUINED THE GAME "Dan is desperately disappointed in the dressing room, he is a local lad who feels the rivalry and significance of the game. He wanted to do well and my own view is that the referee has spoilt the game. Middlesbrough are a good team, it was a good game where both teams created chances.” SECOND YELLOW CARD "It's a good game and when the referee talks about empathy before the game, he does talk about gesticulating and not crowding the referee but I don't feel there is any empathy in showing a red card in the last minute of the first half. Surely, he's got to pull him over and use some empathy? Tell him to calm down, it's a great game with two teams going at it, 45,000 in the stadium, 'I'll have to show you another yellow if you shout or gesticulate more'. Where's the management from the official? I hope that's not being overly critical, I'm just disappointed because it was a really good first half.” INCONSISTENCY "I said to the fourth official, there was a booking in the first five minutes for the pull back, he's stopped it but not even spoken to the player. I just know that later in the game that he's going to book something for such less than that, and this is why I think they get it wrong. They come in and try and manage it, either let things go or put their stamp on it in the first five minutes. I think he thought he would tiptoe into to it today, and then in the 44th minute he books Dan for gesticulating. In my opinion, I think he's spoilt the spectacle, of course from a Middlesbrough perspective they don't mind.” NOT DAN’S FAULT "Dan told me that he's watched it back, he's 20 yards away and waved his arms and said that's an effing foul. That's the emotion of a young man in a local derby, and he's not swearing at the referee. I do that when I'm emotional, I don't swear often but when I'm emotional it can come out. Dan is a great kid, he's competitive. He's distraught because he think he's let the team down but I don't think he's done much wrong. In the context of the game, I don't think the decision was appropriate."
Red card was a big game changer, but I was disappointed with our performance with 10 men,to be fair to Mowbray he didn’t have the options on the bench to tighten things up in the middle, One of those days which happens,we move on KTF
That's still open to interpretation... what constitutes approaching...any movement towards the ref while trying to communicate with him...or do you have to make it to within a certain distance of him. That rule was brought in to stop the whole team swarming a ref scenario or the keeper running to the half way line to have a pop, which I agree with. Neil was just gobbing off a bit, arguably on his way to getting himself back in position. The ref could have quite easily ignored it and nowt would have been mentioned by anyone, because it happens 30 times a game.
We don't know for sure what Neil said and whether the red card was justified, but I thought we made it so easy for them in the 2nd half. We continued to try and play our passing game despite Bellingham being on his own in midfield. I get that we have a style of play, but there is surely room for pragmatism in that approach. I would have packed the defence and instructed Roberts and Clarke to get in behind as much as possible and play for set pieces. Too many individual errors with players out of position and diving in to daft challenges. Probably O9's worst game for us but he has plenty of credit in the bank. Seelt looked impressive and I'd have him alongside Ballard for the next game (won't happen). Hey ho, **** happens. Move on
I take huge consolation in the fact that after a 4-0 drubbing before a 2 week break i am anxiously waiting and hoping for a positive reaction. In the past i would instead have been enjoying the extended break from dread and humiliation. Chin up lads!
I'm more concerned with Huggins injury than the result ... ... you could see how it affected the team.
Thing is, the clampdown is being used for providing an example for grass roots players and prelatives. It's part of the drive to head off the high numbers of refs quitting at that level because of all the grief they get. Starts with the verbal abuse then spills over into physical attacks on the refs If nothing is done then in a couple of years the ref shortage at that level will start to impact upon the numbers of more able refs moving up into the National League and L2. Thing is, the players are professionals and should know better. We can complain about the strictness of the second card but the game had started to turn niggly and I had just told Mrs Draig that things were on the verge of turning nasty because the ref was letting too many of their fouls go unpunished and when he was giving us a free kick there should have been a yellow awarded to the smog player. I bet that getting at our young players was part of the smogs game plan and, unfortunately, it payed dividends because the ref aided and abetted it - likely down the the pre-season guidance re raising the bar on what physical challenges were acceptable. We (players and manager) should have been more resilient in the 2nd half but instead we just turned into one of our L1 nightmares! We can only take it on the chin, goping the team will learn from it and move on.
A referee circling a stationary player, closely inspecting him for any head movement brings to mind the scene from Life of Brian where a stuttering Caesar closely examines the face of a guard who can’t keep his laughter in check.
