SOS - You are so wrong about Pienaar, you've clearly never watched him when he's fit, to describe him as tripe, shows a complete misunderstanding of the game. He got to play for two Prem clubs and captain his country while being tripe? Yeah, right, not I'm afraid that's what your prejudiced opinions on SP are - tripe You think Pienaar wants to be injured, don't you understand how frustrating it has been for him? I'm very disappointed in your heartless comments.
That is utter bullsh*t. He's captain of South Africa... And that means what? South Africa are hardly a footballing power house. I suppose being captain of Zimbabwe would warrant a place in the Barca starting XI judging by your logic would it? I've watched enough of him in a Spurs shirt to know he's sh*t. I couldn't care less if he scored a world record 100 goals and 100 assists in a season for his previous teams WHEN he's been fit, fact is for us he's done f*ck all. Name me what he's done G10 to suggest he's offered anything positive to this club and that he's warranted us signing him? All the positions he plays in we have better players - Bale, Modric, Rafa and Lennon. And just when you think he'd be the ideal perfect back up to them, Niko, Carroll, Townsend, Livermore and even Dos Santos have looked better, which for someone of his supposed ability is unacceptable. Ofcourse I don't think Pienaar likes being injured, what a ridiculous question and I couldn't care how frustrating it is for him, I'm sure being paid £50k a week to sit in a treatment room nursing a few strains and pulled muscles is such a hard life, my heart bleeds for him.
Got any medication for me PNP? I just find it insulting to be told I have a "misunderstanding of the game" and to be told my comments on a player are tripe by a fellow poster who thus far, has some strange dillusion that Pienaar is a world beater. I suppose he thought Gilberto was a great player for us as he had been capped by Brazil...
I think that you're both being a bit excessive, in all honesty. Pienaar's obviously got some quality to his game, otherwise neither us nor Chelsea would've gone for him in the first place. He hasn't done anything notable for us yet, though. Should he be in our first XI? No. Should he lose his Europa League place? No. He's supposedly fit now, so the PAOK game is the place to show us what he can do.
Fair play PNP but my comments were aimed at a player who I don't rate, G10's comment irked me as it came across as a direct dig at the fact I made a comment on a player, hence my over-reaction but at the same time I feel it was necessary as I won't be insulted for expressing my opinions on a football related matter.
Fair enough SOS, I'll pursue the matter no further. If I can find the ignore button, I'll put you on ignore, but i certainly don't want to debate with you any more. Sorry for causing any board disharmony PNP, but I really can't stand a senior international player like Pienaar being described as 'utter tripe', and the rest of it from SOS, which to be honest I haven't read in detail, as clearly SOS and I have had a severe divergence of views. He is of course perfectly entitled to his views, so I shall leave him to espouse them unchallenged from hereon in.
There's no problem with people having conflicting views Ghoddle, but saying that someone doesn't understand the game and calling their views prejudiced is bound to cause offence. I'm sure that even people within the game have massively differing views on some players. Wenger supposedly claimed that Modric was too small for the Premier League, for example.
I expect the manager to play the STRONGEST POSSIBLE, WEAKEST team, for the opponent at hand. If a Euro big boy does not appear before the QF, then I expect more of the same. After which, the PL squad members will have to be considered. So from there to the final tis 5 games. And 10 games the PL squad would have been spared. Bar the injury crisis in the 2nd string (waited long to say that) , a result would have been achieved at Rubin. And in addition to winning the group, the team has a min UEFA pts target of 16 (to make the UEFA rankings sliding window a zero sum game this yr) .
Fair enough PNP, I'll leave it that Pienaar is good enough for Moyes, Redknapp, Ancelotti (I assume he was the manager who courted Pienaar) plus the South African manager(s), oh, and me.
So you'd have problems with Keane being derided? Crouch? Zokora? Ramon Vega? Lee Young Pyo? To me it would be fine to describe Keane's later efforts at Spurs as "tripe". And even if you disagree about his judgement on one player surely doesn't mean he should be ignored forever more, surely.
I'd have a problem with all of them being derided, bar Vega, Lenny. I wouldn't ignore someone making those claims though, I'd just point out why I believe they're wrong.
I'll take each post as they come Lenny, if people want to call a respected senior international like Pienaar, 'utter tripe' and '****', I'll be upset about it. However, I wouldn't bother arguing with them any more, as I don't wish to upset or insult anyone on here nor do I wish to be upset or insulted either. Now I know where the ignore button is, I'll just bung them straight on ignore.
There's a difference between disagreeing and having a problem. Personally I wouldn't want to slate every one of those players. But come on, GHoddle10 - do you really only want to read opinions you already agree with? And PNP: Zokora? (or "The Maestro" as he's known in the Ivory Coast).
I agree with SOS in as far as we've seen absolutely nothing from him in a Spurs shirt, I can't recall him being part of one exceptional piece of play, not one. He was decent in an ordinary Everton side, thats really how it is atm, and you can't say otherwise. We can all talk about how he used to play, indeed he used to play with VdV at Ajax and formed a good double act, not seen any evidence of that whatsoever though. Jury's out for me. As for Ancellotti, if he was manager he'd probably be thinking thank god for that!, not all managers get it right, in fact none of them do.
Very mature of you . Though I'd hardly call insulting me as debating. Thanks for understanding. And I apologise for the reaction I gave to anyone who may have felt I stepped out of line. Francis Jeffers was bought for £8m and was deemed good enough at the time by Wenger. Juan Veron was bought for £30m by SAF and then £15m by Ranieri and was deemed good enough. Andriy Shevchenko was bought for £30m when Mourinho was coach. They all have something in common with Pienaar... They weren't good enough in the end at their respective clubs despite showing great form/ promise prior to signing. Even the best of managers get decisions wrong and some players, regardless of their past form/ experience/ international pedigree can't settle in certain leagues or can't hack playing in better teams. Granted Pienaar wasn't of such a financial risk as the players I just mentioned, yet I still expect good performances from any player when putting on the Spurs shirt, especially a seasoned pro like him and even more so the fact he's had plenty of experience in the league prior to joining us. Pienaar has been with us for nearly a year now, admittedly he's had injuries but he's had enough time on the pitch to give me an impression on whether I think he's good enough or not. For me, he's not. Reasons being - He has no pace, his passing is average, he has decent skill yet whenever I see him use it he goes sidewards or backwards and rarely forward, his crossing is as good as Corluka's (mostly poor!) and his shooting thus far has been weak (consistently into the keepers arms). He hasn't even shown a glimpse to me to suggest that given more time, he'd become fantastic for the team. To add to the negatives for him, seeing youngsters such as Townsend, Carroll and Livermore come through in positions that he plays in and put in performances that have been far greater than what Pienaar has given, I'd rather we put faith in them and continue to aid their development than see a 30 year old "experienced international" produce yet another below par performance. I judge Pienaar on his performances for Spurs, not the fact on whether he was good at Everton and the fact he's played 50+ games for SA, they're all irrelevant and in my opinion, pointless facts to judge a player on whether he's good enough for his current team. Whether you choose to debate with me or not from now on G10 is fully up to you, I won't lose sleep over it and I'm sure you won't, though it would be nice to actually know why, according to you, I don't understand the game. The fact it was insulting was bad enough but thus far you've not backed it up. What has Pienaar done in your eyes to impress so much that any negative comments towards him I've made should be deemed harsh and tripe. I can appreciate people have different opinions and I fully respect that, whether I agree with them or not is down to me and that's the whole point of debating but I certainly wouldn't question their knowledge on the game purely based on a decision of if they like a player or not.
No Lenny, I don't. But I don't want to read that one of our senior international players is '****' and 'utter tripe' either. If people want to talk like that, fine, I just don't want any part of it.
SOS, I don't want to get into a big debate with you. I've nothing against you making negative comments about SP, but calling a well-respected and Proven Prem and international player, '****' and utter tripe' is way beyond the pale for me. You then followed up with grossly insulting me, when it's you who made the original insult towards one of our squad members. You're perfectly entitled to your views, but there's an unbridgeable gap between us now. I was doubtless partly to blame, and I accept that, and I'll say no more, because it only prolongs matters. You've upset me, which is your right to do if you so wish, there's nothing I can do about it. So for me, the matter is now closed. In peace, G10. COYS, etc.
I never grossly insulted you, I never called you a c*nt or w*nker and if you still think that then perhaps you and I have had different experiences when it comes to forms of insult. I simply used what seemed to be your logic against you in an abrupt manner after being told I had no understanding of the game I'm very passionate about, I feel my outburst was fully warranted. You say I originally made the original insult to one of our players but that's exactly that, I never insulted you nor have I ever insulted any other Spurs fan on this forum, in fact apart from the odd WUM who's deserved it, I haven't insulted anyone and don't intend to. I came here to debate and to see the views of fellow fans in the hope of creating banter, understanding and hopefully to learn some things I may have never known before. Yet again the only reasons you use to give Pienaar credit is his international and past prem experience. I have no personal issues with Pienaar, I'm sure he's a lovely bloke and a great guy, I just think he's a rubbish footballer or atleast been rubbish while in a Spurs shirt and I've stated my reasons why and reading some of the other comments from posters I don't seem to be in a minority in thinking he's been a waste thus far. Fair enough if you want to close the matter but you must understand from my point of view, after being told I lack the knowledge of the game due to comments I made on a player, I'd like to know the reasoning as to why you made such a bold comment.
Well SOS, because by calling such a player 'utter tripe' and '****' you're condemning a proven Prem and international player, who is/was rated by Moyes/Redknapp/the South African manager(s)/Ancelloti/the Ajax coach(es), amongst others. You may think you know better than them, fair enough. I don't want to say any more because we may start arguing again, which I don't want to happen.
