I do tend to agree with Ponders sentiment here. I was 'shouted' at on this forum once for saying we dont have many black players this year !! - i mean, WTF !!! Its just pc gone totally and utterly crazy - and not something i want in my life TBH. What has gone on the last few days is totally OTT and we should be addressing the real problems in life - such as economic crisis,national debt, and are Charlton going to get 3 points on Saturday? PS Blatter is a prick- and we all know it- i was almost impressed with his comments today as he didnt put his foot in his mouth as much as he normally does.
Pat. Numbers are numbers. Half of 2 is 50%. Half of 500 is 50%. It does not matter how many there are, you can make an assumption based on the figures at hand. I bet if you had 3 Skodas and two proved to be absolutes heaps, you would condemn Skodas as being rubbish. We are lucky that we have a patient chairman who gave CP money to spend on his own squad. Otherwise he may have become another statistic. Luckily for us, it is proving a wise decision as CP is without doubt a good manager - so far.
Maybe it's just me, but my initial assumption on reading the story is that FIFA are trying to hide something. An out of court tax settlement or accusation of bribery or something. Anyone have an idea what it might be ?
I am well aware of the numbers but it's a sweeping generalisation to assume most managers are useless because of their race or background and on such a limited figure. It's a bit like those meaningless surveys which prove nothing as they are only based on a small sample which cannot be extrapolated to the population at large. I am still waiting for those names but note they're not forthcoming. Your other point is a red herring since there are more than 3 skodas on the road in this country so the other x thousand or however many there are may be perfect. I can just about agree with your last paragraph.
It is not a sweeping generalisation, Pat. Facts are facts. Are you telling me that you never generalise your opinions, Pat? I will not believe you if you do. I am awaiting a response from the Association for Black Football Managers, so it may not be until tomorrow when I furnish you with the exact figures. If I was a chairman and John Barnes came in for an interview, I would say 'thanks, but no thanks'. Not because he is black, but because he is useless. The same goes for Leroy Rosenior, Paul Ince, Ruud Gullit and Gary Megson. They are all rubbish and best avoided.
Keith Alexander, a very good manager, like Chris one of the nicest men in football, died when he still had a lot to give to football and was black.
RIP Keith. A true gentleman. Not the greatest manager, but a football man through and through. Pat. What do you think about the calls for the next James Bond, Doctor Who and Spiderman to be black?
Sorry. It just reminds me of the hoo hah about ending promotion to the Premier League which was happening at the same time as the new rules on young players. The Thierry Henry/Ireland thing was used as the right time for FIFA to put through lots of stuff, dumping the news.
Having just got home and reading the thread, a couple of things caught my eye. Easy one first: Ponders said "CP is without doubt a good manager - so far." What a strange comment. He is either a good manager or not. Time may throw situations at him which lead to poor results but does that mean he then becomes a poor manager? I think the opposite scenario can be true; a poor manager can develop into a good manager but can a good manager develop into a poor manager? Discuss. Back to the thread. People have said there should be more black managers. Outside of this forum there was a brief flurry some time ago that there should be more Bitish Asian footballers in the Leagues. Why? Unless there is a physical barrier to their progress these statements are absolute tosh. What are we going to do, walk down the road, drag an Asian kid into the Valley and beat him with rubber hoses until he signs professional forms? If they want to get into football of course they should be allowed to, but on merit not on the colour of their skin.
It is sweeping, it's not based on any substantive fact from a large pool of managers and by implying most managers who are black are 'useless' is setting up people to fail. There are not the same number of black managers as white so you cannot compare like with like and no I don't make sweeping generalisations about people (or call people rubbish) based on their race or gender as I have no reason to.
There should be more black managers in football yes and it would be good to have a game where there is representation at the top level and to see more coming through. There are some excellent black FA coaches and the same process applies to all managerial appointments irregardless of their race anyway. It's up to boards to ensure that candidates interviewed at management level are representative of footballers at large, black footballers are encouraged to take up management as a career and the FA needs to do more work on this, one of my recommendations in a recent report on diversity.
Pat, you are the perfect being. How can I contend with such a superior human? I bet you have never said 'the chinese make good food' because of course there are many chinese people who can't cook very well. Or that 'black people make good athletes' because there are some black people who can't run and jump for toffee. It works both ways. Furthermore, black people make up roughly 2% of England's population. For that to reflect football management, we would need 1.84 black managers working within the top four divisions. Does that ring true in the present day? WSW. Why is it a strange comment? CP may be brilliant in League One, but absolute pony in the Championship. Maybe I should have qualified the comment a bit more?
Sorry, Pat, but your comments are so wishy-washy. If black managers impress in the interviews, they will get the job. Why make a big issue of their skin colour? We are all people, regardless of colour, so why highlight differences. You will do more damage in the long-run by constantly bringing up the colour issue.
No I don't they are at all and reflect equal opportunities in many organisations today. Successful companies have active diversity policies so people from different minority groups are represented reflecting society at large. I don't think it's damaging to ensure that more black footballers apply for managerial positions and are encouraged to do so and am sure most people would welcome it.
At first you are not commenting on the population at large, and then you are. What is it to be? So now if we use the number of black footballers playing in the top four leagues, we are talking about 25%. That is an over-representation in terms of the population at large. That is okay. It means there are many well-paid black men playing professional football. Life is not too harsh, is it? Besides, many go into other careers when they retire. If you are a white man, Pat, I would think that your propensity for pro-black issues is a vainglorious attempt at stroking your own ego. That is how I read it and I am sorry if I offend you.
I've just re-read my posts. 'if you look at the % of players it is totally under-represented at management level. How many black managers are there, just the two out of all the football clubs, I don't think you can brand most useless when there are so few.' I think it's more than clear I am talking about the under-representation of black managers at the higher echelon of the game as compared to black players and likewise white managers to white players. However well done on trying to misrepresent what I've said. It doesn't really matter about my background and the ego insult doesn't interest me. Just as in the case of the lack of women MPs in parliament, it would be good to see more black managers of the game coming through and that will happen slowly. I find your damning of black managers irritating labelling them as mostly useless when there are so few anyway, based on your arguments, I wonder if Chris Powell would've been given a chance.
I've skipped most of this conversation, but there's one thing I want to correct. You cannot use statistical analysis on small numbers to try and imply correlation. (Yes, you did imply correlation when you asked why there should be more black managers, as the previous ones were bad). What you said is like flipping a coin 5 times and getting heads 4 times, then stating that probablity of heads on future flips is 80%.
That's a shame, I try to get involved in discussions of interest. That's what I was saying, it's too small a sample to base a negative judgement on, however I kept getting back most black managers are rubbish irregardless of the fact there are so few of them.
