1. I am not going to blindly place my faith in what the board tell me to do. A board that has handed 3 titles to the Huns and saw fit to appoint a man with a war criminal on speed dial. If you feel you can take moral and ethical direction from them, go right ahead. 2. A charge of what??!!! "Celtic were going to have to answer charges of pro-IRA chanting".....how embarrassed you must have been. Answering made up charges. 3. it is obvious that you have absolutely no understanding of what Celtic is to a great many people. It is the focal point of a community. A community that believes Ireland should be free of British rule. The club was founded by these men, the great reputation you referenced was built by these men. Now you think you can whitewash their memory and revise our history as a club to come up with a PLC approved version? 4. Provide me with the numbers that constitute this vast majority. Otherwise I'll assume you are making it up. 5. You too have a choice, a choice to reject bullshit like "charges of pro-IRA chanting" and see your fellow supporters criminalised for a legitimate political expression or sit on your hole and let it happen. You know who is next after that? It is guys who are grossly offensive to others on the internet by calling them idiots........but that would never happen......would it?? http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S...ng Communications (Scotland) Bill/SB11-48.pdf
I found this type of chanting offensive long, long before the scottish government or uefa decided that it should be considered so. I found it offensive when I was a teenager , standing in the jungle , listening to these morons. Dont be so disingenuous to suggest this is about celtic fans somehow deciding they will kow-tow to the new laws of the scottish parliment , or the statements issued by the board ; this is about celtic fans being disgusted that this kind of **** is being heard once again. If you truly believe that some peoples " education" started with songs they heard at parkhead, then , I`d suggest your energies might be better spent railing against the education system rather than the board, the government, and the celtic fans who dont share your point of view.
Cossy raised the people who were against the singing. He raised the board. I addressed that. Nothing disingenuous about it at all. I addressed the point that he/she raised. And yes I truly believe that for many people, their political education began at Celtic Park. You'll need to explain to me why I should rail against the education system instead of a government that intends to introduce ridiculous legislation.
Leaving aside the whole legal / 'offensive' aspect of this for a sec...I don't think anyone disagrees that a proportion of celtic fans are irish (or second/third generation irish) republicans who want a united Ireland. It just seems a bit of a leap to meaning that should constitute a green light for IRA chanting at Celtic games. I'm guessing most/many sports teams in Ireland have an even higher proportion of supporters who share that belief - do they all chant 'Ooh ahh up the RA' at the games? I simply don't believe irish republicanism as a political belief system is so ******ed that it has no other means of communication than chanting songs, that lets face it are politically anachronistic (or not political at all), at scottish football games. Is there not anything more current to show banners for or chant about than the Easter uprising?
I think we all agree that the SNP legislation is flawed... However, I think most of the Celtic fans debating on the con side of IRA songs is doing it, not on the basis of the flawed legislation, but on the potential breach of games rules - set by the SPL and UEFA. Rules quoted elsewhere that, in my opinion, are self explanatory as to why IRA chants should stop. I don't care, in reality, if somebody gets charged for singing "these songs" but I do care if Celtic get punished (by point deductions or fines or fan bans or game bans)...
well when that becomes a realistic possibility, I have already said that I am happy to revisit the situation. As of right now, it is a politically driven pile of ****e. As for the Uefa rules, I do not believe they are as unambiguous as you believe. They are deliberately composed in that way to allow sufficient room to move.
RB, I stand corrected. I credited you with the ability to figure out what was right or wrong for Celtic Football Club. I was wrong. You are unable to. QED you are an idiot. You are right when you say that Celtic are a focal point of the community. What you fail to grasp though is that that community is not exclusively Irish, nor republican, nor Catholic, nor Scottish, nor British. So why do you make the huge assumption that this Celtic 'community' that you have in your head gives a damn about supporting pro-Republican murderers? 'A great many people' was a phrase that you used. Really? It's not scientific, but judging from the reaction on here, you are it. Pretty much everyone else is saying pro-IRA chanting shouldn't be done. You are very selective in your reply to my post. You pick up on the board, but you ignore that the management don't want this chanting. They have the best interests of the club at heart, but clearly you don't seem to care what they say. So if I don't provide numbers of the 'vast majority' you think that I am making it up? I'm not quite sure how to respond to that. That is either a sign of desparation or stupidity on your part. Anyone with common sense can see that that is the case. You only have to listen to the numbers of Celtic fans who get involved in singing Celtic songs and then compare that with the number singing pro-IRA songs to get a snap shot of the difference in numbers. Look at the numbers of people on various websites, newspapers etc who do not want Celtic's reputation to be tarnished by idiots linking our great club to murderers. Like 80,000 others, I was in Seville. I played my part in ensuring that the name of Celtic Football Club was known around the world for all of the right reasons. I was proud that our club and its supporters were recognised for the fantastic followers of football that they are. What I do not take kindly to is the way that you and a very small number like you, damage that reputation that so many helped build because you act like a spoilt child and refuse to seperate any political belief with your football club. Celtic and politics are not inextricably linked as you suggest. We have a social charter, but absolutely nothing to do with politics. That social charter does not further the cause of Irish repubicanism one iota. The club does not identify itself with any political belief. Just because some people like you want to have the club linked to a political belief does not mean that that club has to be linked to that belief in any way shape or form - except in the tortuous twists of your mind. It has been made clear to you by the board, the management and the overwhelming majority of fans that we do not want to have our great club linked to murderers. You have chosen not to follow that plea. The club is secondary to your political belief and it doesn't seem to matter to you how the club is tarnished and its positive all-inclusive image damaged in public, so long as you can stand on the terraces and sing support for a political belief and callous murderers. It then follows that you are not a true Celtic supporter. True Celtic supporters come from all walks of life and from all faiths and from all nationalities. They do not come to Celtic Park to poison the atmosphere with hatred. Whatever personal beliefs or experiences they have are left behind. They come to Celtic Park to support a football team, sing it's football songs and enjoy watching a game of football. You choose not to do that. You are then in the wrong place. If your political beliefs are so strong that you feel the need to sing about them, then please find a place well away from Celtic Park to do it and leave the football club to those who have it's best interest at heart.
# Not sure how you can argue against this... but I'm sure you'll give it a go. Chanting IRA - is this not political (supposedly)? Then, it is against the rules... no? It's certainly provocative!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15777154.stm "These chants have no place around our club," Lennon said. This
I gave you the courtesy of reading your posts and giving them due consideration. You have failed to extend me the same courtesy. I made none of the assertions or assumptions you attribute to me and as such I am going to dismiss this entire paragraph with the contempt it deserves. No, and I didn't claim any science to it either. You claim the "vast majority" and fail to prove it. You cite the sparse numbers on this board to back up this assertion. I could very easily cite the huge number of posters on other Celtic sites, such as the huddleboard and the vast numbers of posters on that site that share my perspective. I didn't do that because I understand that the vast number of posters that agree with me do not necessarily represent the "vast majority" of Celtic supporters. If you are intent on using unverifiable figures and bandying about unsupportable terms, then you must realise that your argument loses any credibility. Monkey dances to organ grinders tune shocker No, I know you are making it up. This is abundantly clear. Your argument appears to be that anyone not singing the rebel songs must not approve of them. I have been very mannerly in my responses to somebody attacking me thus far. I think we both know that this is a ludicrous assertion. Let us leave it at that. There were no Irish Republicans in Seville singing Republican songs? Irish Republicans contributed as much to enhancing the reputation of our football club in Seville as any other. John Reid has just stepped down as chairman Really? Didn't the Celtic board just hand over a cheque for £10k to Poppy Scotland? who is it you think I am precluding from following Celtic? It seems fairly obvious that the only person trying to stop anyone from coming to Celtic park in this discussion is you. You mean people like you? People seeking to redefine the history of the club? People seeking to eradicate a legitimate political expression?.... No thanks I have ably explained in many threads why I believe that Celtic park is the appropriate arena in which to air my politics. I am happy to listen to your perspective. It appears you are prepared to lie and invent things to discredit that perspective..... In fact it doesn't appear that way, that is exactly what you have done. It is very unbecoming of a Celtic supporter.
The argument surrounds the suitability of the songs at Celtic Park. A club with a long history of the supporters holding that particular politic. Barca used the same argument to contest the banner "Catalunya is not Spain". I don't expect Celtic to contest this though if that is indeed the charge.
And your considered view on the latest plea from Neil Lennon to stop these chants? Or are you going to ignore him again?
That is where the argument is to be had. The geographical location of Celtic is irrelevant. The historic and contemporary allegiances of a significant body of the support allied with the fact that these sungs have been sung for manys a year. It is a relevant factor.
There are many "irish" songs that can be sung to keep the the history /connection alive - I have no issue with this. However, I think the time has come to think again about what is sung at CP/football. I'll not labour my point - you know the "phrase" I think has no place.
And that is where the argument lies, if indeed that is the approach uefa are taking. You have been clear and honest in your position on it. It is all kafka-esque at the minute.
My position is abundantly clear. The geographical location of Celtic is irrelevant. Your position is abundantly clear. You don't give a damn about the club and are happy to keep it mired in sectarian/ political bullshit that most of us want to move away from. Celtic's geographical location is relevant. It is a Scottish club that plays in a Scottish league and, in 2011, can do without people from other countries trying to enforce their beliefs down the throats of the rest of us. Like I said, if you feel that strongly about your political beliefs, find somewhere far away from CP to express them. Why not get yourself down the Shankill and give it a try? Or is that geographical location not relevant enough for you?
