You would also need to ask the mens and womens squad if they would be happy with it. Deeney had done some time, seemed genuinely remorseful and did work behind the scenes with the community, prisoners, etc. Problem is I don't see how Greenwood can atone in any similar way if he doesn't admit some sort of guilt.
Apart from all the unwanted baggage that he would bring. Who honestly thinks we could afford his wages? Man United do not want to pay him, he can now never be seen returning to a Man United shirt. They are looking to get rid of him.
I think he'll probably end up in a country where the culture is very unfortunately less progressive. I can't really see him getting a top division club in this country for some time. And I wouldn't want us to pick him up, I'm afraid.
Quite obviously he wouldn't be coming anywhere near us or any similar clubs due to finances. He's very young still and has a young child with his partner of whom the allegations were with. They are still together and the charges were dropped, presumably as she wouldn't testify or maybe because there was more to it that isn't in the public domain. Over the years there have been many footballers that have faced court charges, some found guilty, some found innocent, just as happens with the general population. A person must be given an opportunity to continue their life, unfortunatly us fans aren't very forgiving. I suspect he will go abroad initially but may try to come back in a few years. In this case he hasn't even faced a court.
I think that very last sentence (no intended pun ) is pertinent. I agree about that 'trial by media' is essentially wrong, and that very often critical information is excluded because it doesn't fit the narrative that sells said media, or details are either deliberately withheld or just not released, but I think there is a distinction here from Troy, for instance, because he did face a court, served a sentence and showed true contrition. That final point separates him from the likes of Marlon King, who obviously wouldn't be met with warm applause as a returning ex-player at half-time. The suggestion with this young man is that there was a case to answer, even if it wasn't exactly as we were initially led to believe, there appeared to be something, that for some reason (maybe very good lawyers?) prevented justice, not just for the girl, but for society in general. When the public don't see what they perceive as justice, they can get a bit vitriolic and judgemental themselves, as there is an idea that the wrong message has been sent out, particularly in this case to the young.
The issue really here is about male attitude to females, when I was growing up you never hit a female unless in dire self defence and if a boy punched a girl he would be taken to one side and and be shown the error of of his ways Equally if a female was verbally abused then the abuser was told in no uncertain way where he was wrong I was living in the allegedly roughest estate South Oxhey and attending the toughest school Hampden Sec Mod but we had morals and standards that do not seem to exist these days
A bit unfair to say that about everyone, but there are certainly plenty around for whom that is true - as a teacher I've had the misfortune to meet many of them, even at Primary school level. When I retired in 2018, I swore never to set foot in Fraserburgh again because of them - and so far I've kept to that.
That was my experience growing up there, and into my late thirties when Mrs Fez and I escaped.. Alas those morals, in general, didn't extend to those with a darker skin tone or a London accent. Greetings from the Stone Dead festival in Newark, Notts!
I don’t understand how we have become less civilised. I thought that it was pretty much given that society learns and improves, but in this regard I agree standards have dropped. Why? I remember that the laddish ‘Men Behaving Badly’ era was a retrograde step, but that was, at least ostensibly, mocking of such behaviour. But ladies have been self-stereotyping themselves as ‘little women” - to what end? Why do we live in a society where stupidity is celebrated (there’s the entire TOWIE brigade for starters)? Is it to appear less threatening and so more acceptable? We used to have ‘Top of the Form’ and later ‘Blockbusters’ celebrating knowledge, then in the 90s it drifted into throwing ‘gunge’ onto people (did ‘Tiswas’ bring the custard pie slapstick back?). We used to ask questions, now we cover them in thick glycerin mix, it’s bizarre. And all the time, the young look increasingly homogenous - ladies, marker pen eyebrows, fake eyelashes, tits out; ‘men’, cropped beards, close haircut back and sides, too much hairwax. I find it a shame that there appears to be pressure on the young to look and behave in such a uniform manner. When I was young, the cool thing was to be different. And unfortunately, I think standards of how men treat women were allowed to take a large backward step. This new sexism, this hitting or mistreating women - it’s a lack of respect. That word bandied about but not seemingly understood.
In the 'good old days' it was legal for a man to rape a woman provided that he was married to her. Women didn't want to get rapists charged because the women knew that they would be treated as the criminal. They knew that if they were wearing a short skirt at the time of the rape, or at any time before the rape, that they would be branded a slut and the rapist would get off. There was a veneer of respectability but it was there to protect men, not women. Women's football, for example, was effectively banned from 1921 till 1971. Behaviour that was once acceptable, no longer is. See Rubiales for example. Someone like Greenwood would still be playing 50 years ago. There would be no debate. It would be hushed up. Men in general and 'stars' could get away with a lot more. If you think that women were not mistreated in the past, or less likely to be mistreated, then I would strenuously disagree with you.
The Spanish FA guy is a good example of someone not reading the room well and thinking what he did was ok. Got the impression he wasn’t a popular person anyway and probably isn’t a one off spur of the moment emotional reaction I think if he was more apologetic and sincere he might have got away with it more .
I agree with all you say, NZ, but there has been a recent downturn. And that doesn't make sense to me.
Yes. He’s a ‘good’ example of what I mean. From where in hell did this creature emerge? Who/what ‘influenced’ him? Because his set of ‘ethics’ (how many sets of inverted commas will I need when talking of this arse?) is the sort of which I am referring. We were moving in the right direction. Slowly, but forward. And along come these turds and their ilk, dragging us backwards. There is a four-letter word for Master Tate and his equally deviant brother. I hope the Romanian justice system is more stringent than ours.
On reflection we ought to drag this across to another thread. Maybe we could copy/paste replies straight into that Coronavirus one that seems to be a catch all (no pun intended).
