Yes but they got their players back, we didnt (last season). This season injuries cant really be an excuse (yet) but it is crazy even now 2 keepers out for a start and a £9 million one at that, which cant help any team, never mind us. Imagine if Czech was out for the best part of a year, they wouldnt get relegated as they have quality outfield players, but they wouldnt win the league either, or come anywhere near. But i think Bruce can turn this around, you dont, I dont think Bruce is to blame for everything thats happened (he isnt innocent of everything either) and he isnt pulling the wool over my eyes, and yes i am being realistic, we are not a top 6 team (I bloody wish we were) but we are not, we are 7th and down, but we are also not relegation fodder either (but we might end up being, weird **** can happen in football).
It's quite sad the amount of pleasure you would seem to gain from a bloke getting the sack. We shall see over the coming weeks what Short thinks as Football is indeed a results driven business. The fact Bruce is still employed would seem to suggest that your opinions of him are not however shared in the top echelons of our great club. Thankfully.
You probably wont though as its a 14 million to 1 chance, but good luck in that (cant see what your point is though tbh)
Wellbeck was never for sale, he was always going to be as 'stopgap' loanee, check back to the press talk at the time and you will see Bruce saying that SAF wouldn't release him.
I don't get pleasure, as you so ridiculously put it, from seeing Bruce sacked at all but if its necessary for the good of the club then I have little sympathy with a millionaire manager, who will get a few more million for making an arse of his job, getting the boot. He's hardly a destitute person is he? I am saddened that there are Sunderland fans happy to see the club relegated without a whimper or thought for the consequences for redundancies that would follow that. Now they are ordinary men and women whose life depends on our EPL status and won't get Bruces millions for something they have no control over.
Now you are putting words into our mouths, I dont think any Sunderland fan would be "happy" about getting relegated, especially not after all the promises and a billionaire owner at the helm. But we cant do **** all about it if it does happen (which I am 99.9% sure it wont anyway). I really dont see how getting relegated will cause redundancies though, we play more games next year, so we will still need to staff, yes the top earners will go, even though if the unthinkable did happen, we should try to do what Newcastle did, and keep the nucleus of the squad together if we can. But its still bloody Novemeber, we have had 11 games, relegation is crazy talk at the minute, if we are still ****ed in Jan/Feb and it still doesnt look like the management team have a clue (whoever that may be), then lets talk about it, but to do it now is just mental.
Cest. Your arguments are getting more desperate by the day. Happy to see Sunderland relegated? Never. Are we going to get relegated? No. You see Bruce as a man who would throw a game against our biggest rivals. Your opinions on Bruce to me are therefore completely invalid. Good luck with the relegation theory though. It ain't going to happen.
So only the super intelligent and worldly wise Cyprus can have valid opinions now. Everyone else who disagrees is invalid. Who sounds the most desperate now? Perhaps you could have me censored as well and anyone else who disagrees with you? For my part, I value your opinion and welcome the debate, as I don't feel my argument is so weak I need to stop you from being heard. Bruce has taken us close to the trapdoor 2 years running now and we are absolutely one of 5 or 6 clubs who are in the shake up for it again this year. I'll take bet on three conditions. If he is sacked before May the original bet is no longer live but you pay me 50 quid for being right all along and not an invalid poster; if we don't finish higher than last season you pay me 50 quid and if we don't beat last seasons points tally you pay me 50 quid. I'll reciprocate likewise. How confident are you about your man?
Don't be pathetic Cest. All I'm saying is that if I thought (like you do) Bruce had thrown the Derby I could never forgive him no matter what. If I was super intelligent I wouldn't have joined the armed forces. I'd have sat at Woolsington airport with me thumb up me ****ing arse. The bet was £50 we don't go down. Take it or leave it. I have never called you an invalid poster and have said quite the opposite on previous threads. Your views on Bruce however are to me distorted by the Newcastle effect.
Not that confident then? My views on Bruce are tainted by his abject results over a sustained period dating back to February this year, his failure to build a sustained future, inability to hang onto his better players, poor tactics, hapless performances and regular pathetic excuses for those failures. Throw in the worst derby performance in living memory and generally ****ing up The other 2 derby games if has inflicted on us and yes, I want rid of him as soon as possible. If that point of view doesn't match yours then fine but it doesn't make them invalid. BTW I'll bet you another 50 quid he totally ****s up the next derby game next year as well, if we are unlucky enough to still have him ruining our club that is.
It appears that my opinions are invalid due to my not wanting Bruce as our manager now. Bruce supporters seem to be adopting Kremlin or Chinese govt tactics now to protect their man. Suppress dissenting views in order to pretend all is well. Very sad.
I must admit its sad to see debate become insults. I have had many a run in with you cest and your rather extreme ways of making a point at times make me pull my hair out. All that said one thing is beyond doubt, you like me are a Sunderland fan and want whats best for our club. Mind I know my way is the right way, a voice in my head tells me that every day, can you hear him?
Syd I make me pull my own hair out at times but like yet and 1000's of fellow fans like us, we are a band of brothers all wanting the same thing, even if we have completely opposite views on how we might get there. FTM
Its funny how people say "I'm not a pessimist, I am realist" or "I am not an optimist, I am a realist" when reality is perceived differently depending on our point of view.... I thought this was a thread about Short, not Bruce? If you agree that Short/Quinn shouldnt cave into the greedy twats demands, then you agree that the wage structure is the best way forward for the long term future (of SAFC)? If so, then you agree that Short is doing the best for the club making moderate investment while ensuring the club is financially stable? As such, you also agree that Short has done nothing we can fault him for? YOu seem to think that the money we got from the sale of players goes into Short's pocket, but surely it goes into the clubs coffers and has been used to balance the books that were severely unbalanced by Keane's policy of buy, buy, buy? You cant look at the clubs books from the "last 10 months" perspective, you have to look at the previous 5 seasons at least, and plan for the future as well. on the off topic subject of Bruce: Its funny how you say Bent/Gyan ****ed off for greed/homesickness/whatever then still manage to say they were driven out by Bruce's managerial prowess ... the bastards left for $$$$$, and Bruce had nothing to do with them leaving (imo). Did you ever stop to think that Bruce did try and sign players that were proven goalscorers, but we were not able to do so cos those kind of players cost a small fortune (and a fair wage packet)? We got Bent for dirt cheap, and will never get another proven 20+ goal scorer for less than 30million. The best way for us to progress as a squad, imo, is to have one or 2 forwards capable of scoring 10+ a season, and goals coming from midfield (and defence) as well. It was our over reliance on Bent in the 1st place, that dropped us in the ****ter when he left. I sincerely hope that we will never rely so much on one player again, so that when one greedy ****er leaves, it doesnt leave us floundering. What is the difference between Everton, Villa and us? It is not the ability to spend $$$, but the fact that all parts of their squads chip in with goals, from set pieces or open play. We have started to remedy that this season, and I hope it continues. If I had to choose between buying another 20+ striker or a player who can deliver the same quality of corners, free kicks etc as Larsson this January, then I would go for another player like Larsson. If Larsson suffer a long term injury, then we will go back to last season when we offered zero threat for dead ball situations.
Dans - at no point have I said the policy of a firm wage structure should be broken. I have never advocated spending beyond our means and I certainly don’t want to go down the avenue of hocking the clubs long term future, just to secure some short term progress. However, my line on this strikers issue has been consistent from the very moment Bent buggered off. It’s not that players leave, its what you do to rectify the situation that matters. I will state my case AGAIN. Bruce knew in the summer of 2010 that Bent wanted away having talked him out of a move to Turkey that summer. He knew that he may well be losing the star striker for whatever reason and therefore should have been making plans at that time. When he did go in January (6 months later) it seemed to catch Bruce by surprise. Why? He knew 6 months before (not known to us of course) that his main man was unsettled. So we were fed the bull **** about not diving in and breaking the bank in the summer which turned out to be just that. Bull****. THEN, Gyan sodded off but not before he told Bruce back in May he was not happy (even we knew that by his body language and couldn’t be ****ing arsed on the pitch appearances) and yet once again Bruce was the rabbit caught in the headlights. Now, if there was no money available to replace Bent, surely Bruce should have cut his cloth to suit his pocket? Why then blow 10.5m on Ji and Wickham, great prospects for the future maybe they are, when what was needed was that money investing in strikers ready to play NOW not in 12 months time. If your car was ****ed and you had 10 grand you wouldn’t go out and buy the best engine money could buy without the chassis to go with it would you. Bruce did just that and blew the wad on players that didn’t have the capacity to make an instant impression. He knew that was the case as well. When Gyan did eventually **** off we were left high and dry as a club. Bendtner was never on Bruce’s radar until he **** his pants after Gyan left and a last minute of the last minute of the transfer window acquisition gets no plaudit here. Bruce can’t plan, tactically be aware or adapt to situations that happen around him. He is a small time manager operating n a big mans world and it shows up with everything he does. He is a rank amateur when what we need is a true professional. You will never convince me that in the last 12 months we couldn’t have found a couple of strikers for 12m that would have had an immediate effect? Shane Long and Danny Graham (two lads I had advocated before they moved in the summer) would have cost 11mbetween them and both have hit the ground running. This lad Cisse that everyone goes on about could have bought for 14m? That’s only an additional 2.5m for what we paid for Ji & Wickham and he seems to be the finished article? Players could have been sought and bought to suit our pocket that wouldn’t have left us in the ****e AGAIN. We have now lost Cana, Bent, and Gyan and have Sess making noises that he wants away too now. Can you name another club that has got as many of their best players wanting away after less than 12 months working under their manager? Don’t waste your efforts. There aren’t any. Bruce is the problem now 100% and either Short sacks and gets a new man at the helm, or he will take Short down with him imo because if we are in the bottom 4 or 5 at the turn of the year, the fans will turn and they will also turn on Short. This is my fear and the text of the thread. What is Shorts value to us? Major perhaps. If the fans start to vote with their feet much more and then those that are left start to have a go at him for sticking by a failing manager, what might he do? Without Quinny as the buffer, he may just up sticks and bugger off and then we really are back to the Cowies and Murrays. Bruce is going to ruin this clubs future, mark my words. He has already split the crowd, blown derby games without any real feeling of disappointment imo and generally reigned over one of the worst 11 months for many a year for performances and results. Short is now completely in the hands of his manager. We may just end up losing everything by hanging onto this failed manager for much longer.
Who is the person that is responsible for this overreliance upon one player that you have chosen to highlight in your own words? Could it possibly be the manager? is it not the managers job to oversee these responsibilites? If that is indeed so, who is ultimately responsible for creating the instability that occurred when Bent departed for the $$$$ as you describe? (Even though we can only speculate as to the truth for why Bent departed) Villa bought that player and yet you use Villa as an example of a club that has players that chip in with goals from all positions. Does that prove that Villa are better managed than SAFC? Why were SAFC overreliant on Bent yet Villa arn't? The only difference that can be determined is that the competence and philosophy of the manager of one club is superior to that of the other club and this cannot be disputed in any shape or form, as there isn't any justification for allowing the club to be dependent upon one player as you yourself have proven, by using Villa as an example. The same Villa that bought that player from ourselves. This season we are chipping in with more goals... Yet how many goals have the strikers scored? I suppose we must take one step at a time under Bruce... Therefore, all of this great progress that has occurred under Bruce was thwarted by the very same man and his lack of competence due to creating an 'overreliant' footballing strategy/tactics/philosophy. As a result, we have experienced yet another complete squad 'rebuild' and in the 3rd year of the 'Bruce era' we sit 1 point above relegation having won 2 games out of 11 and lost 5 games out of 11. Last season we moved 6 points closer to relegation than the season before however we can paper over those cracks by conveniently forgetting that there were barely anything between ourselves and the clubs below us. Only a mere 3 results going the other way would have seen us relegated and this proves that we failed to excel in a very tight league as the fundamental difference between 10th and relegation was virtually minimal. This season we have continued in the very vein that brought us to the point of flirting with relegation last season and even IF we manage to survive, we havn't got any hope of reaching the Europa league due to such a poor start... Here we go yet again... 4-5-1, 4-6-0 and out of the cups, 3rd year of the 'Bruce era', 6 points closer to relegation, 2 wins from 11, 5 losses from 11, refusing to play two strikers and wasting 25% of another season, a manager that hasn't won anything, walked out of two clubs, sacked from another, relegated a club, presided over the worst results against Newcastle than any other manager in living memory, is 'unlucky with injuries', deems physio staff that highlight the cause of injuries as not being suitable for a job with SAFC, advises supporters to lower expectations, squad rebuild year after year (which defeats the purpose of maintaining the same manager) and the lists goes on and on... But we finished 10th and that is all that matters as nothing else is remotely concerning. Ultimately, our form and results since the player that Bruce chose to become overly reliant upon departed has been shocking and when viewed from another perspective based upon Bruces factual managemental history, suggests that Bruce may well have quite simply been lucky to have a player like Bent come and play in a squad that he assembled. Perhaps this overreliance itself is due to the very fact that Bruce just doesn't have the skills to achieve, in exact alignment with his 13 year resume.
Clockstand - you have excellently put over the points i have also been banging on about for some time now. That 10th place finish, in hindsight, has been Bruces saviour from real scrutiny about how much we are actually slipping backwards not going forwards. The actual place was good on paper but as you say, we were only 3 games from playing Championship football this season and we left it until the Wigan game to put daylight between us. this time round, we dont have the usual half decent start to cushion us for the equally usual 2nd half season slump. If Bruce continues a thread he has precided over for 4 years on the trot now we could be relegated by March/April. Blackburn and Wigan wont hang on to failing managers for too long and Bolton have had to play the whole top 10 in their first 10 games and will get better under Goerge Clooney. With MoN and Mark Hughes perhaps poised to step in to any club that wishes to change direction, we cannot rely on those 2 buggering up all season. Wolves re poor and will struggle but MM has shown he can motivate a team for those crucial games, as he has done for 3 years with Wolves now whilst Bruce has shown he cannot. Any fan who just thinks it will be alright on the night is burying their head in the sand here. We are in deep, deep trouble and I dont think the man in charge has a clue what to do to put things right. We simply dont have a man with a plan imo!
