I imagine this is one of the few things on which you would align with James O’Brien. I would say I’m amazed they haven’t tried to find a way to transfer him to Saudi Arabia but I guess them making money off of him is still a terrible look. But they could have cut ties ages ago but have been paying him the entire time I expect it will be a PR disaster at least in the short term. Unfortunately it will then come down to how he plays I expect. Lots of people will forget if he starts winning them matches. Sad but true.
Sadly it feels like you’re right. For me I will never forgive him or the club. Manchester United will always be Rapist FC. One more reason to despise them and the premier league I guess. This is why I thought all the virtue signalling they do around race/LBGT/etc is utter bullshit. They just pretend to care about social issues. When they actually have a chance to set an example and make a real difference, they choose money every time. So they can all stop ****ing preaching
This is such a difficult one as I would guess the player can claim he has never been found guilty of any crime and therefore it is some kind of attack on his rights to not play him. On the other hand, we all heard the tapes and know he got let off because of a money grabbing family.
If football took a stand collectively then the money grabbing nature of the family would be irrelevant as there wouldn’t be any to grab. Or at least there would be a fixed amount that would run out. But had United released him someone else would have signed him on. Likely with higher wages and a bigger signing on fee
I know this is another level. But the cat kicker got booed for half a season or so, and songs sung about him, but it stopped and has seemingly been forgotten whilst he continues to be a regular for West Ham. I'd be disgusted if Greenwood was a Saints player and was allowed to play for our club again. If he does find his way back in at Man Utd which seems likely, you'd hope all opposition fans and any Man Utd fans with any integrity wouldn't be willing to forget it for as long as he continues to play.
Very difficult, I mean I am by and large 99.9% of the opinion of innocent until proven guilty, however in this instance we have all heard the evidence and know he is guilty, however he hasn’t been officially found guilty as he shagged the key witness into withdrawing her evidence. This reflects extremely badly on Manchester United as an organisation and I expect this will have some big repercussions even if they aren’t enough to back off of this decision. For a start, say England go on to win the Women’s World Cup and the first thing that greets the returning Man United players is a face down with their club over a player who has been caught in abusive behaviour. Also while I’m not sure many of Man Us worldwide audience will be as fussed. He will be savaged up and down the country for the remainder of his career, Man United will not be able to separate their branding from rape support in the U.K. Plenty of male players have daughters and sisters, maybe they might fancy a two footed lunge at Greenwood’s knees. Maybe some fans might be tempted to take matters into their own hands. This is all of the possible fallout to come.
Not sure I quite by the “male players have women in their lives so might decide to assault a guy who assaulted a completely different woman” argument. It is uncomfortably close to the sort of thing you hear from (usually US Republican) male politicians when either talking or legislating on an issue that primarily impact women (negatively) and they say “as a husband to a wife and a father to daughters”. It isn’t sincere then and I’m not sure someone taking a physical stand seemingly on behalf of women will be overly well received - including by the feminists out there (although that is a broad group including some who are off the deep end so who really knows)
Im not suggesting they should, more will someone take it upon themselves. Maybe not given they are professionals but you never know. We have know players to deliberately leave one on each other over less (Keane on Alf Inge Haaland springs to mind).
I didn’t think you thought they should. I’m just not sure many even will. And I wouldn’t call Keane and Haaland less in this case. That was directly personal. The only way that would be “less” than a player doing the same to Mason would be if the girl was related to him. Instead it would be a bizarre form of white knighting And we are talking about a woman who would have had as much high profile support as she could have ever asked for to help with leaving this guy. Instead she is with someone who has treated her this way, was apparently content for him to sleep around on her and has since had a child with him. After all this happened She doesn’t deserve what happened to her. But people taking a stance on her behalf that involved physically attacking the guy would be perplexing People will talk about how abusers work and how she is likely gaslighted and blah blah blah. And she clearly has a family that would rather she stay with him. Which is why I mentioned high profile support. This story was such big news that every celebrity campaigner and charity would do all they could to help her through any split. But a different choice has been made Back to Greenwood though - the issue is more the message. It tells young boys that if they are talented and high profile enough that they can get away with anything. And that should not be the message. It’s veering into the politics thread but I am not one for terms like “rape culture” and the casual and ready use of “toxic masculinity” and “men just need to do better”. The general and accepted demonisation of men leads to more problems than most people actually realise. But cases like this do give the people who make those points ammunition. And very powerful ammunition at that. Even if they have to ignore that the points they are making only really apply when you add “rich” and “powerful” in front of “men”. Which they usually don’t.
Welcome to society. I agree entirely with all that you say, sadly the quoted statement is true of more than just the Greenwood case. There was the Brock Turner case in America where he was given just four months despite being convicted on three counts of sexual assault. The max sentence was 14 years. The justification was the impact a longer sentence would have on him and his potential success as a swimmer. The patriarchal nature of our society continues to see young and / or rich and / or young men get off lightly or entirely for stuff like this. I'd like to think Man Utd would see beyond the rhetoric of 'all charges dropped' and actually take a stand. I don't have any faith that they will.
I also appreciate, mods, that my above post probably stretches the limits of remaining on topic for the thread, so I will stand down / move elsewhere if people wish to discuss further, if required.
You’ve said young twice. And age hasn’t got anything to do with it. It is do do with wealth, power and talent. Young poor men with no outstanding talent (or even just average young men) don’t get away with stuff like this. Or even average men of any age
Fair. I said young due to the Brock case I cited, where his age was a factor. But I agree his socio-economic background will have played a significant part in that as well. I totally agree with you about wealth, power and talent.
Well, I went full Karen and emailed the premier league and asked them how alllowing Mason Greenwood to play again lives up to their first value of “integrity”. I assume they won’t answer but hopefully they feel as much heat as possible
Never really liked but always had huge respect for United. That will be gone completely once this decision is confimed. ****ing disgraceful. A sad day for English football as a whole when arguably it's biggest and most famous club won't take a stand against this. If anyone can afford the hit it's them, I'm sure a Saudi club would have bought him too. Big up to the female united fan groups putting pressure on the Glazer scumbags.
