Also, I referred to what you were saying, not who you are. You on the other hand choose to attack the person.
You are now exaggerating for effect. What I have said is that men cannot become women, you will not get anyone from a scientific background to disagree with that statement. By saying that is prejudicial and hateful, I would suggest you are trying to shut down an opposing viewpoint by making it fit. Everyone has the right to exist, but when men want to exist as women that affects women directly. In this case, we should be considering the rights of women first. In the rush to be "inclusive" women seem to have been forgotten about. I'll ask you the same question that I asked NorfolkSaint; Do you believe that a man or a woman can change their sex? If you don't think they can then we have no argument and obviously it wouldn't be hate speech. If you do then that is a bigoted viewpoint because it would be despite all scientific evidence saying otherwise.
It's not as difficult as you might think. All you have to do is put on a football strip and tell a few gullible souls that you now want to be known as Raheem. It's really that simple. That you are obviously not a black man doesn't matter, it's how you feel that counts and anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot and Jamaphobic. Jamaphobic.......... The act of disputing the existence of a white Raheem Sterling from Jamaica.
About 40 years ago, one of my closest friends, who had been my best man at my wedding, confided in me and my wife that he felt he had been born into the wrong body. This was a shock to us, not least because he was married with 4 children. Nonetheless, he was completely sincere and over the next few years completed his transition, and has lived as a women ever since. In strict biological terms, his sex as determined by his chromosomes is of course still male, but his gender, and the body he now happily inhabits, is female. He didn’t make this change because he wanted to somehow exploit women or prey upon them, and I imagine that is true of 99.999% of men who transition to women. There may well be a minuscule percentage of men who transition for nefarious reasons, but that represents a tiny minority of a tiny minority, and will in any case be insignificant when viewed against the number of cis men who exploit, abuse, or prey on women. Other friends have transitioned the other way, from female to male, and the same caveats apply. I’m happy for all of them that they have dealt with an issue which has overshadowed their entire lives, in a way which has absolutely no effect on anyone who doesn’t directly know them. To suggest that this somehow undermines the rights of women is quite frankly preposterous. Trans people exist, they are real, and they are all human beings deserving of respect. I don’t understand why you have such a problem with them.
The Philippines cricket team is largely made up if people fom the Indian subcontinent . When i went to watch a match in Manila most of the players were from those countries who typically play cricket. I like the fact that one of their grounds is called the Cavite Oval ! I believe that the Philippines is the worlds largest diaspora so not surprised at the origins of the women's football team.
Isnt this a little like someone having a face lift and making the person look younger. Imagine a 57 yo having a face lift. They may look 30 years old, but they are still in reality the age they are. Nothing about surgery changes the fact that whilst they look younger they are still 57 years old. Is this fact disputable? Tbh I’m not sure what is allowed to be said and what is not. I personally don’t believe people change their sex. They change stuff about them, but for me, you are what you are born as. I don’t know if I’m some peoples book this makes me transphobic or whatever the expression is. I’m sure some will think I am, and others will think I’m not.
I fully agree that everyone deserves respect. I also get this is a sensitive subject. I don’t believe there is a major issue with people doing this for sinister reasons, although I’m sure this will start to get worse, but don’t feel all trans should be beaten with this stick. I still don’t believe people do change their sex, which from reading from afar seems to be the crux of the issue. For me it is indisputable that people change sex, they simply don’t. If people want to live their lives transitioning then fair enough, but also thought IOAG view was people saying they can change their sex and maybe it appeared to him that others seem to dispute this. I actually think it is more of a communication issue on here over this, and people over complicate the actual issue in hand.
Sort of. In my mind, all this is is IOAG leapt upon an example of something that to him is a bugbear, and made out that there was a biological man being allowed to play in the Canadian team, and therefore the world was falling down. He was, in this instance entirely wrong, and this was pointed out. Then instead of doing the sensible, normal thing, which was to say "ah damn, didn't read this one properly - sorry!" and admit that mistake, he doubled down, which is a shame because that just makes him look like an angry man that isn't listening.
Firstly and most importantly - Laban Filipinas! Secondly, it’s quite fitting in a way as the Philippines main export is people. Football in the country is virtually non existent as Basketball is utterly dominant, but this may have the effect of increasing popularity of football within the country itself and then they might be able to nurture the sport from within. I’d take footballs nationality rules over most other sports anyday, have you seen the state of the Scottish Rugby team!
I think the biggest problem you have here is that you completely misread the story in the first instance, so the point you make is based on a false assumption. That being said more generally I do feel like transitioning isn’t really tenable in sport as you retain some of the inherent advantage / disadvantage of your birth sex, what the solution to this is though, I have no idea, ultimately it is probably true that you can’t switch in sports. That’s literally the only issue I’d have though, the way trans people are talked about and the way our politicians and media are pushing to make outright hatred and vilification towards trans people acceptable is abhorrent and hopefully history will treat them with the disdain they deserve.
Yeah that may be so, I was just trying to focus on what I saw as the crux of the issue. And of course, we should reflect on when we got things wrong. But seriously, how many times do we do this on here or in real life? I found as I got older, I do this more frequently in my personal life. On a forum, maybe less so.
That echoes my thoughts exactly. There's always going to be debate and controversy over trans people competing in professional sport because of the possibility of them gaining an unfair advantage over other competitors. That doesn't mean they should be treated with prejudice and hatred. They are human beings just like the rest of us who have made a huge lifestyle choice to help them live the life they want to lead. I echo Chilco's comments that any transphobic comments will not be tolerated on this forum.
It is funny because this little spat has shown the real issue here. I think 9/10 of us are against people born with male bodies competing in female sport - but nobody is against people born with female bodies being allowed to compete with men. This shows the issue for most is about physical fairness and not a hatred of a group. 9/10 of us are more than happy to defend trans rights when we see them impinged. Sadly there is a 1/10 backlash against change and that is where all the fighting comes from. We shouldn’t let sport be a dividing factor in social progress.
This is the General Football Thread, however, as were on a roll here, some numbers, all official and recent 2021 0r 22 - MOJ & ONS 1.1 million adult victims of sexual abuse, 800k of them women (per annum) 11k+ men in prison for a sexual offence 18% of prison population in for sexual offences, nearly 100% are male 76 trans-gender women in prison for a sexual offence None of these specify against male or female This is in US prisons, but I'm sure I've heard the same is true in UK, can't find any figures ... These findings illustrate that the incarcerated LGBT population faces significantly higher rates of victimization than their heterosexual counterparts. Some prisons separate known homosexuals, bisexuals, and transgender people from the general prison population to prevent rape and violence against them
As this page has become rather heated, all I have to write to unite all of you is .... "Play up Pompey, Pompey Play Up." And don't mention.Wimbledon!!!
Is anyone watching Brentford v Brighton in the US Premier League summer tournament? Brighton are playing the way Russell Martin wants Saints to play. It's only kicked off, and Steele is having a nightmare! Lucky its still 0-0
@ChilcoSaint I'm not sure what's deemed as hate speech. Could it be something you don't agree with personally and use "hate speech" as a label to justify removing it? You might recognise this. Is this hate speech? It sounds quite hateful. "The point is, that the monarchy represents the pinnacle of the class system, which has ruined the ordinary people of this country since 1066. In order to get rid of the class system, the lords, the knights, the county squires and sheriffs, you have to get rid of the monarchy too. Chuck them all out, every one of the bloodsucking parasites. Let us be ruled by a true democracy, with a lower and upper chamber all elected by PR, and joined-up communication between all the layers of government from parish councils to the Senate." ChilcoSaint,Sep 21, 2022 But yesterday you told me this. "but your position is they they basically don’t have a right to exist, and in my mind that is blatantly prejudice and constitutes hate speech." You might want to have a word with yourself about how you wont tolerate hate speech.
You are entitled to your beliefs and the fact you are supporting your friend is good. But I still maintain you are letting your personal feelings dictate what is acceptable on this board. You cannot moderate evenhandedly if you do it based on your own feelings and as I've said before I don't believe you are being evenhanded. "Trans people exist, they are real, and they are all human beings deserving of respect. I don’t understand why you have such a problem with them." "To suggest that this somehow undermines the rights of women is quite frankly preposterous." This whole issue is not just what a man believes about himself or how he dresses. You and the others on here like to just concentrate on trans rights and pay no attention to how this may affect women. When a man announces he is now a woman that is not all he is claiming. They have other demands that accompany their new identity and that includes access to areas that up until recently have been segregated for women and girls. These areas include toilets and changing rooms in shops and sports centres. They will be in most cases fully intact males (the majority of "trans women" do not have surgery) and can flaunt their bodies to their hearts content. Why anyone with a wife, daughter, mother, sister would stand for the rights of trans people to do this beggars belief. On the subject of segregation, for years it was seen as important to preserve women's privacy, safety and dignity. Safe from men when they are vulnerable. It doesn't matter if only a small number are dodgy, it still gives some men the opportunity they were previously denied. If your wife or daughter needs an intimate examination in a surgery or hospital, it can be carried out by a "trans woman" and they will not be able to ask for a biological woman instead. If your elderly mother requires care from a helper for things such as dressing and bathing, she cannot refuse a "trans woman". To deny that this undermines the rights of women is quite frankly ignorant. Here is some more important information about why I have such a problem and why suggesting it undermines the rights of women is not preposterous. I urge you to read it all. There are 12 short pieces on areas of concern in the link below. https://sex-matters.org/where-sex-matters/ Extract from the healthcare section. "Patients who request to see a female doctor may find themselves being examined by a doctor who is male, without their consent. Without clear policies for obtaining consent and addressing the difference between sex and gender, professionals may find themselves put into positions which patients experience as assault." “A Lancaster mum whose bi-polar disorder left her believing men were conspiring to kill her said she was left terrified when she was locked on a women’s psychiatric ward with an ‘extremely male-bodied’ transgender patient. When she raised her concerns with hospital staff, however, she said she was not taken seriously and her medical notes implied that she was a ‘transphobic bigot’.” Extract from the prisons section. "Freedom of Information requests by Fair Play for Women in December 2020 revealed that there were 163 recorded transgender prisoners in England and Wales. Almost 50% had at least one conviction for a sexual offence. There is emerging evidence that the Prisons Service is failing to keep track of any of the data relating to transgender prisoners and in which estate they are accommodated." Extract from the legal system section. "It is far from self-evident that a male rapist or *****phile is entitled to respect for his gender identity if, at some point after committing his offences, he announces that he now identifies as female. But such expectations have become prevalent in the legal system to the extent that the victim of an assault has been reprimanded (and refused compensation) by a judge for referring to her assailant – an obvious male – with the male pronoun “he”." I hope this answers your questions
"I urge you to read it all." You enroniously thought Quinn was a biologic man playing in the Canadian women's football team, and wrote a diatrible about it, citing a source which you clearly hadn't read properly. You haven't seemed to have acknowledged your error. So this is a difficult debate to have with you, when you further gishgallop now conjuring scenes like this... "They will be in most cases fully intact males (the majority of "trans women" do not have surgery) and can flaunt their bodies to their hearts content. Why anyone with a wife, daughter, mother, sister would stand for the rights of trans people to do this beggars belief."
