I agree, I want us to be in the Premier League for the next 30 years, even if the next 10 or so of those are spend in mid table obscurity! The last thing I want is for us to blow 100 million next summer, scrape into 5th or 6th, spend a year or 2 in the Europa League, then fade as a result of overspending and end up sliding down the divisions! To be honest I couldn't care less about the Europa League. Yes we have never really had European Football bar a couple of games but have you seen the games they show on Channel 5 and ITV4. I would open the curtains to watch some of them. Fair enough if we could somehow scrape into the Champions League fantastic. We would all love that but I truly believe the Europa League would be more of a hindrance to a side like ourselves. I sometimes think the only reason people moan at the minute is down to the mags having such a good start.
After Swansea away I knew he was gone. It looked like he didn't give a ****. He also came to our fans at the end of the game which must have been his way of saying goodbye. What a knob he is.
Didn't the guy guarantee a shed load of debt for you when he jumped on board? No point looking at your own facts and figures, the only ones that count are the office end of year returns, which have been pretty grim under Quinn's guidance and probably the reason why he's been "moved to another position" (sacked from that role). Regardless of your transfer budget being tight, somebody is signing the players' wages off on behalf of the club which is obviously something you need to sort out, unless your owner is planning on racking up more debt and saying bollocks to uefa's financial fair play rules on the basis that you're unlikely to qualify anyhow. Ellis Short deserves huge credit, but Quinn should be shot in the nearest town hall for all to see.
One thing here, Cest - Gyan is still our player. If whatever the problem was is put right, he can be brought back. Welbeck was never going to be ours, as you've said, but I don't think even a loan was going to happen. Fergie thinks too much of him to lend him a second time to a club that is becoming known as 'an injury factory'. Short? There are two ways of looking at a prem club these days. Some - like Man. C. and like Chelsea until recently - are affordable hobbies to super-rich people. But e.g. Short and Lerner are coming in and wanting to run a football club like any other sensible business. With Short, it wasn't just a matter of getting so much in for one player and spending so much on another. We had an existing debt problem which he had to engineer off the books for a start. I think overall he's done a good job. The problem for the 'hobby' clubs is what happens if their owners find another hobby. I think I'd feel safer in the hands of Short or Lerner. The word 'Portsmouth' has slid out of the vocabulary recently, but, make no mistake, it WILL happen again to somebody.
It's mostly because of SB that we cannot keep or attract the better players, he's small minded when it comes to the team, he goes on about players being good value for money, I've said before he means free transfers or loans, I think he is deliberatly taking Sunderland in the wrong direction, we bang on about the next 4 games, the way he has us playing we don't stand a chance.
Is it not because we are atracting a better class of player that do well here and then other bigger clubs come in for them .Once they want to go we have to let them go and this is nothing to do with ellis or bruce. We should look at the steady progress the club is making and be more positive . The next step for us has to be europe as that is the only way we can keep the "better" players.
Some really great reading on this thread. The one thing above everything else is that the Europa league is a heap of crap. As a season ticket holder I can honestly say that if (and that's a BIG if) we managed to qualify I would not be going.
Also the consecutive financial losses over the previous 2 years Other than that this is a very good article though
Nah mate, SAF knew his value, we would never have got him unless we gave barmy money. still nothing changes amongst the north eastern clubs eh?
actually when Drummaville took over, they bought the club for 10 million, and they also wrote off 40 million debt, they also invested 60 million from buying shares, he then bought 30% of the shares from drumaville, and then bought the lot a few months later, I believe short give the club a 28 million interest fee loan when he first took over, which he more than likely has got back by now. The problem is, we could have Walter Buffet and Bill gates in charge, and it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference now, Cest could run the club with £1 in his back pocket these days (buying the club is a different matter) but running it, anyone can as you can only spend what you make, gone are the days an owner can just say, here you go, 100million interest free loan, go and get 4-5 really good players, and we will push up the league. at a rough estimate, but its pretty close as this is from last year or thereabouts, we make 65 miilion PA, our wage bill was 54million, thats the turnover, 11 miilion a season (you obviously have other outgoings added onto that as well though) so it doesnt leave a lot in the kitty. Man City done it just in time, before the FFP came in, FFP starts from this season, so its too bloody late now for the rest of us. We have to get the cash from revenue/merchandise, so selling stadium nameing rights, etc etc etc is going to be the norm in the next couple of years, not the exception. Really dont understand all these posters that say we need a billionaire to move up the table, we have one, but his hands are tied, without some dogdy/kosha deals getting done with whoever and whenever, we may not like the outcome (look at Newcastle) but its a must these days, and its not to piss the fans off (well maybe for the toon it was a tad) its to compete, or at least try to with the big boys, I think if this FFP does take hold, then the top 6 will be the top 6 for years to come (suppose that hasnt changed that much though since the prem league began) but gone are the days for me when a team like leeds can come up, and win the title, or a team like Chelsea/Man City (after the next 3-5 years anyway) can buy it with a rich owner.
Not for the first time you've completely misquoted me. I never said I knew Cana, Bent and Gyan would go but Steve Bruce did say he knew but then did **** all about it. He said Cana came back to training in the June and wanted away; Bent told the club 6 months before he actually went that he wanted a transfer and Gyan had made noises in May about being unsettled, reaffirming that 2 or 3 times. If someone kept telling of kidw wanted to bugger off I'd be very wary about their commitment wouldn't you? Bruce and the club knew well in advance about Bent and Gyan but ****ed about until they went before looking for replacements. Not an example of my insight but a good one of Bruces piss poor planning and amateurish management ability. As for short, I didn't say I wanted him out at all but I do question his actual financial commitment given the money in for players and the money spent. Those sums don't add up whichever way you do the maths and we have gone backwards in the last 11 months, not forwards. Ashley has been slaughtered for selling the crown jewels to line his pockets but short has done exactly the same to us. Any investment he made initially has been more than repaid imo. The difference is Ashley has been saved by Pardew and the excellent start he has delivered, wheras we are blighted by the hapless Bruce and 11 months of utter ****e under him.
You seem to be trying to pick a bit of a scrap where there isn't one. No one is saying Ellis is bad for the club. I'm just trying to gauge peoples opinions for the future. In my view without major investment 7th -10th is about all we can ever hope for no matter who the manager is. So are we happy with a safe 7th - 13th place every year (very slim chance of relegation IMO) or should we (Short) gamble and spend big? I honestly don't know. One things for sure though. If Ellis wants real success, he will have to spend in a way that so far. He hasn't.
Cest. If we take it as fact that Bent and Gyan left to line their pockets. Given that as I recall both players promised the club they were very happy to stay right up till the day they left. What could Bruce possibly have done? Only Short could have stopped them leaving by caving in to their demands. Is that what we want?
Again going back to the Rainton Meadows talk in, the £28m loss we made during the last financial year actually meant a loss of 0p as Short put all the money lost back into the club however that doesn't show on the financial results.
It's not entirely inconceivable that Short has tightened the purstrings and moved Sir Niall to one side as he doesn't have complete faith in Bruce... which to be honest is an issue that sticks out like a sore thumb based upon Bruces resume. Short would appear to be giving Bruce time to prove himself yet not commiting to much of this very precious resource that we have accumulated from Bent, Henderson et al. The other consideration is compliance with the fair play rules... I'm certainly not concerned as the moment Short took on the role of chairman I felt asthough the right man was in the job. That isn't a disrepect to Sir Niall as his personality and passion is more suited to expanding the profile of the club. It all depends on the thoughts of the chairman... If he is looking to maintain a manager who can balance the budget then with Bruce he has the right man but if in addition to balancing the budget Short wishes to retain premiership status then he may not have the right man. If Short is holding back investment because he isn't comfortable with the thought of handing it over to Bruce then that can only be a positive indication of his intent IMHO. Time as ever will reveal the truth.
To come anywhere close to balancing the budget Prem. survival is a must. As for Bruce not being the man to retain our top flight status! Well he's improved us each year so far (16th-13th-10th). I'm very happy personally that Bruce will not get us relegated, I do however wonder should Short splash major cash in the future how Bruce would cope with it.
Based on the manoeuvres that we have seen this season I'm not entirely convinced Short thinks Bruce is the man for the job. Like yourself a lot of fans state that bruce has improved us year upon year... With the money that Bruce has had available we should (and any manager with a proven CV would have imo) have qualified for the Europa league last season and I consider 10th place a failure based upon the actual circumstances that were apparent at SAFC last season. This season 10th place is something we appear to be aspiring to achieve as opposed to making it our own. The arguements have been put forth time and time again and I see nothing on bruces resume that gives me full confidence that we will be in anything other than a relegation battle year in year out. We even flirted with relegation last season before finishing 10th due to a win against a hapless Wigan and an already relegated West Ham. There were only 8 points between 10th and relegation which proves that finishing 10th wasnt a great mathematical feat. I dont believe that flirting with relegation should have been ANYWHERE near on the agenda for last season but bruce did manage to achieve that with the best squad SAFC have ever seen. The hapless displays in cups were a disgrace and disrespect to the fans who pay money and once again the list could go on and on... Since January we have seen nothing other than a continuous decline and that is a long time... We can forget about the Europa league already and this proves what kind of a season we are looking at this year.
