Pud, you know that is not the reason the support sing those songs and it is disingenuous of you to suggest it. We have not been fined for singing these songs ever. The day that happens i am quite happy to revisit my position. It is quite clearly part of a wider offensive against our support and i am disappointed that people are quite happy to sleepwalk into a kafka-esque situation where they blindly accept our guilt for something we may or may not be accused of.
Our support IS "guilty" of singing IRA songs. It HAS crept back into the home games (albeit to a very limited extent and only in area 111 - unsurprisingly). It IS offensive to some. These ARE the songs that people object to. What else is there to say?
We are also guilty of wearing green and white hoops, and guilty of singing jcge. Neither of those are crimes either. I object to a lot of things, like the wearing of the poppy on the celtic jersey. It offends me. It is offensive, yet the reaction is somewhat different. If the aim is that nobody anywhere ever is to be offended, then football is finished.... But it is not. The aim is to make sure i dont get to say what i want to say. So lets legislate agaonst that? Bullshit
read joes blog from association it is saying a 17 year old celtic supporter got his door knocked in at 6 am by the police his crime singing "ooh ah up the ra " at the Hibs game .Then in court he got refused bail . What is happening to our country .???
Nothing disingenuous about it RB. Basically, Celtic where founded to help raise funds for Irish immigrants in Scotland. The trend, in many cases, was that Irish people and people with Irish links tended to support Celtic. This is still the case. Some people feel that it is ok, due to a historical line with Ireland/Irish people/, to sings songs about Ireland. This includes chanting IRA at a football match. There is a time and a place and it isn't at a football match. In many peopleâs eyes, not just in Scotland and just not those involved with/supporting football, the IRA are a terrorist organisation. This, in my opinion, means that this has no place in football. As you quoted in a previous post/another thread, this fits in with UEFAâs rules. So, I can see no issue with our support stopping to chant IRA. Why wait till Celtic get fined tho? To note: I do agree, although I support it, the poppy has no place in football â same argument about politics and possible offense caused - and its use has been hijacked. I argue that when it was used, we should have been respectful enough to leave the protests for another time and place. However, I do believe, going forward, it should not be used at football grounds/strips/banners and should be left for official remembrance ceremonies.
The link with Ireland did not begin and end with a Marist brother from Sligo. It is much more deeply ingraned than that. Obviously i accept that people have a different position on Irish Republicans than me and obviously i accept that people adopt a different position on the singing of Irish Republican songs than me. I accept that. To criminalise me for it is madness and to punish me for it is madness. This is not racism, it is not sectarian. I am happy to engage anyone on it ( and i must respond on the other thread) but when that legitimate position is dismissed as idiotic, it tends to get my back up. Fair play, you have stated your position. That is fine, but it does not accurately reflect the motivation behind singing these songs.
You obviously have different motivation for singing them RB ... that is understood. However, I don't feel that a lot of who sing them at CP (and away games) have: 1) Your passion for republicanism 2) Your knowledge of republicanism And simply sing them for antagonistic reasons or some mis-guided/ill judged allegiance with Ireland
As far as I'm aware no one objects to our hoops. So the relevance of that comparison is limited to say the least. The aim is to legislate against your right to say what you want to say? Eh no, it's really not.
You used the word guilty as though there is something wrong with it. hence my comparison. What is the point in this legislation then?
I put "guilty" in inverted commas to try and convey the ambiguity of my meaning. What's the point of banning any behaviour deemed to be 'offensive'? To protect the rights of the 'offended'. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned this isn't really a civil liberties issue here. We all accept that certain types of behaviour can be acceptable in some places and not in others. Most people think that a football match is not the place for chanting about the IRA. It really IS that simple.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/scotti...face-punishment-from-spl-over-pro-ira-chants/ One down, one to go.
And I am sure you agree that this is a ridiculous notion. You say most people as thought this has been tested somewhere. Could you show me where this data was collated? A football stadium is absolutely the appropriate place to make a political point. Most people agree with that. It really IS that simple.
My civil liberties have been infringed as I was not allowed to sing " ooh-ah, up the ra " at the line waiting to go into my local cinema. Imagine my surprise when I was similarly asked to cease this behaviour while in my favourite supermarket. Then , unbelievably, I was asked not to sing a song in praise of a terrorist organisation while at a music festival ; so , I started singing " god save the queen" instead ; however , the organisers also asked me to cease this song, saying that there were many places I could indulge my political views, but this was not one of them. Fact.
No I don't think that. For example, and I'm using an extreme example purely to illustrate the point NOT to compare it to the current situation, the 'offended' could be objecting to racist or sectarian chants. You might feel (if you were a racist or bigot) that any moves to curtail racist/sectarian abuse at football matches was infringing your rights to show your 'political views'. I'd argue the rights of others not to be subjected to those chants took precedence. So in principle, a move to protect the rights of the 'offended' is not a ridiculous notion. Just to reiterate, I'm not likening IRA chants to racist abuse - I don't believe at all they're on the same scale of 'offensiveness' - just making a general point. This is a rather tired argument - unless there is a national database showing stats of whether people think 'a' or 'b', then you are unable to make any claim as to whether people think 'a' or 'b'. Well, I don't know of any such database - I'm going on the basis that I don't believe I'm unrepresentative of a decent proportion of the UK's football fans, and those I know have no interest in singing IRA songs anywhere far less in a football ground. The non-football fans I know also find IRA songs incredibly distasteful. I realise this covers a tiny minority of the UK's population - but I'm utterly confident that when the question is raised in the next UK census, I'll be vindicated. Besides I'm not talking about making a political point. I'm talking about singing 'Oooh ahh up the 'RA'. It's ****ing stupid, not political, and it's about time people stopped trying to make excuses. Republican politics don't begin and end with singing IRA songs do they, far less banal chants?
