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The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Wandering Yid, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    Surely the analysis should have been done before a vote was announced?
     
    #27161
  2. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    In our electoral system your individual vote almost never matters. That is an absolute fact. So you can use it to protest, vote for an extreme party or even the official monster raving loony candidate with no consequences. None of that is stupid and I would never belittle people who do so in the way you just have.
     
    #27162
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  3. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    I have never asked anyone that question.
     
    #27163
  4. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal
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    I think once we make a decision we should stay with it. So the 1975 vote is still binding.
     
    #27164
  5. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    But in this case it did.
    The vote wasn't split among wards, it was literally a one to one vote where every one was counted as a for or against.
     
    #27165
  6. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    I have never belittled anyone. You however think anyone who does a protest vote is stupid.
    The reason we have a representative democracy is that policy decisions are difficult so we put them in the hands of a group of people who seem more competent than the average elector. If they mislead us they can be voted out. That facility isn't available following a referendum, indeed the opposite is usually argued.
     
    #27166
  7. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    But changing any individual vote would have made no difference so a protest vote might have seemed safe.
     
    #27167
  8. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    What would you say are he 90% of things not related to
    the machinery of govt that were going to cause damage,
    that said machinery could not prevent even if their
    immortal souls depended on it ???


    "OK...the Remainer conspiracy theory.""

    A theory is an attempt to qualitatively +/- quantitatively
    describe the reason for something that occurs in reality.
    So by definition for there to be a "conspiracy theory" there
    must be a conspiracy.
     
    #27168
  9. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    There is a reason for this that you have already touched on.
    In a GE then the winner is not nessesarily the party with the most votes, just the one with the most votes in the right areas.
    In a referendum the winner is the vote of the majority of the people (which should carry more weight than a selected few)
     
    #27169
  10. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    All very nice, but not relevant to my question.
     
    #27170

  11. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    A further example of the lunacy of the referendum process....before we joined the EEC we were in EFTA. So if you wanted to revert to the previous position you would have voted to Leave. But the government decided that the Leave vote precluded us being in EFTA/EEA.
     
    #27171
  12. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    Did you see the majority? it was basically those who voted leave in Scotland (not purely obviously but a very similar number) so yes, individual votes counted for a lot and if people were stupid enough to vote against their own opinion then deserve all they get.
     
    #27172
  13. Left on the Shelf

    Left on the Shelf Well-Known Member

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    No, there has to be a set of circumstances that a party (in their own minds) cannot attribute a rational explanation for.
     
    #27173
  14. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    When deciding how to vote you need to work out the implications of how your vote might affect the outcome. If you believe that your preferred outcome is either very likely or very unlikely then you can safely cast your vote in a way designed to send a different message to the Government.
     
    #27174
  15. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    < chairman deedub >

    1. Voting should have been mandatory
    (nigh 100% turnout needed for an issue of this magnitude)

    2. there should have been an 'indifferent' box on the ballot
     
    #27175
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  16. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Please don't belittle people as stupid because they think differently to you.
    Referenda are anti democratic for the reasons I have already stated so there is no reason at all why people should vote in a particular way in an advisory referendum.
     
    #27176
  17. Left on the Shelf

    Left on the Shelf Well-Known Member

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    How so? It's totally relevant. A binary question was asked and answered. That result could have been honoured by a detailed process evaluation. That may have led to a decision to Remain or Leave with various options, but at least there would have been some quantifiable data to base the decision. That part never happened and lo....the UK is in a mess of its own unnecessary making!
     
    #27177
  18. Left on the Shelf

    Left on the Shelf Well-Known Member

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    This has been fun!
    Nite, chaps! :emoticon-0148-yes:
     
    #27178
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  19. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    What % of your acquaintances told you beforehand,
    that if the result was to leave the UK, they did not
    expect the govt to initiate exit action ??

    Again, for me the answer is zero.
     
    #27179
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  20. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    A better process would have been STV for the following options.
    1) Leave
    2) leave but remain in single market
    3) leave but remain in customs union
    4) both 2 and 3
    5) Remain
     
    #27180
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