I am not dismissing Clough. He was exceptional. Just observing that Bobby Robson was not useless as was stated, and I think in terms of a CV that warranted the England job he had a good one, as did Clough. There is a really good stat abou Robson at Ipswich. Something like he had more seasons as a manager than he bought players. He promoted from their youth team. Clough signed a lot of the players he won the european cups with. No criticism by the way, just that they did it in different ways. Clough broke the transfer record and signed the most expensive keeper at the time. On the flip side he bought Birtles from non league. The Ipswich achievements for Robson stand up I think. A really unfashionable club but he created a style of football that was a bit unique (2 strikers but no wingers) at the time. A UEFA cup and an FA cup against Arsenal. Twice runners up and regular top 6. He was a worthy England manager when selected for me. I had the pleasure of spending a tiny bit of time with cloughie. He was a real gentleman and you could sense how he would make players feel. Brilliant manager no doubt.
Bobby Robson suffered because he came across as a bit of a bumbler and he could be a bit highly strung, so the media were able to portray him as thick. That only got worse after England didn't qualify for Euro 84 and the press routinely ridiculed him, I remember the "in the name if God go" campaign in the Mirror in the 80s and Spitting Image's portrayal of him. All that took away from the fact that he had been a good manager at Ipswich, another unfashionable club that punched above it's weight against the bigger clubs during his time there. The fact that in 9 seasons from 1973 to him leaving to become England manager, Ipswich only once finished lower than 6th in the top flight is an impressive achievement. You just have to think that that's in context of competing against both Merseyside clubs, both Manchester clubs, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Leeds, Villa as well as Cloughie's Forest team and the Derby team he'd built earlier. After leaving England Robson won back to back Dutch league titles with PSV, back to back Portuguese league titles with Porto, who he also took to a champions league semi final against Barcelona, as well as winning the Portuguese cup. Finally at Barcelona he won the Copa del Rey and the European Cup Winners Cup. His only relative failure was the mags, thankfully, but even then he got them into the champions league. He certainly deserves to be considered a top manager.
I liked Bobby Robson...who didn't. But from what I have learned or read in the past we got to WC semi final in 1990 despite of him not because of him. Apparently the players called some sort of meeting asking to change tactics part way through the tournament...
I suppose its the same with Southgate now, as an England fan as well I believe all the people who keep telling me he got us to the finals of the Euros or the semi final of the world cup as some sort of achievement but I think it is in spite of him not because of him.
Utd though have always played a lot of their own young players, and not just as tokens. Four or five of the mainstays against Bayern were homegrown, and that was typical. They spent money, but that's always happened. City are spending God knows what - no one will ever know, their battalion of lawyers will see to that- and when they get it wrong it doesn't hurt them. Around £2bn since Guardiola took over. And they were already the best or second best team. He's a very good coach, but never tested against the odds. They are a very good team, but they have the pick of all the best players. So they should be. They represent a country not a City. It is perverse, false and will be ultimately ruinous for the game.
He's a great coach certainly. But he inherited a wonderful group of players at Barcelona ( some of whom he had helped develop) plus peak Messi. He went to Bayern, who I think had won the quintuplet, and won only domestic trophies. At City he took on the best or second best team, spent a fortune and made them better. He's very good and improves players, but his teams have often imploded spectacularly under pressure, and almost folded again on Saturday.
Comparing Man United and Man City's total net spends since 2008 (planetfootball.com) not that much difference according to planet football
He inherited a team who hadn’t won anything for a few years at Barca and told the superstars who’d been mainstays in the team that they’d soon be off. They mullered teams all season and went to the Bernabau beating Madrid 6-2. Won a domestic cup final 4-0 or 4-1, hammered Bayern 4-0 in the CL.. Messi was not peak at all when pep took over and his goals/assists were still relatively low before peps first season when he jumped up to nearly 50 goals in all comps, that’s not a coincidence. He brought through players from the academy like Busquets and Pedro to replace Deco and Ronaldinho. Re-Signed Pique from United for pennies and obviously look at how that ended up. There’s some strange conception that Pep went to Barcelona when they were the best team in the world, Messi was scoring 5 goals a game and he had an unlimited transfer budget.
No. Pep definitely made the team and the players better. He has done that everywhere, and the clearout was needed. But he still had a core of players who would go on to win the World Cup with Spain, plus Messi. Still, he did brilliantly there, his best work I'd say. But at Bayern he was no better than many others. At City he has such an overwhelming advantage it is not possible to judge him properly. If Harland suffered a career ending injury tomorrow, they would buy Kane the week after, or could do. Other clubs can't do that. Chelsea spent a load of money last season, but it wasn't on players others were desperate to sign. Guardiola is a great coach, no doubt but he has never worked against the odds, apart from maybe his first few months at Barcelona.
If anyone's firestick has a Portuguese section it looks like the u18 game is on v England. Bellingham is playing. My mate has just told me.
