Off Topic The Politics Thread

Mmmm - could do a lot of damage in ten minutes locked in a room with a cricket bat and Rishi Sunak....pity it wasn't with BawJaws, could've really gone for it

 

If the term ''far left' means a belief in the collective ownership of production, distribution and exchange then surely ''far right'' means unrestricted free market philosophy ie. what we now call neo liberalism. The questions were was the NSDAP (National Socialist German Workers Party) really a socialist party - at least according to ideas of Socialism at that time ? The Strasserite left wing definitely thought so - the original 25 points of the Nazi Party (before Hitler took it over) contained many points which could have come from Marx. Also Mussolini was originally a Marxist. So were Nazism and Fascism born on the left ? Both contained elements which were anti free market Capitalism, anti religion and anti monarchist - and believed that the state was above the individual. As for the racial element - Marx was full of that - any culture which was not capable of developing a proletarian consciousness would be cast on the dung heap of history (according to Engels) - the expression ''Workers of the World unite'' was purely a nordic thing at the time of Marx. Lenin had to edit vast chunks of Marxist writings because they were so anti Slavonic and anti Russian. Marx also wasn't too complimentary about Jews despite being one. The main difference between the forerunners of Nazism and Marxism is that they both hated the Rothschilds (predatory Capital) but the first group extended that to all Jews and the second group to all millionaires. But class war and race war can very easily run together.

 

Third prize is a Tory whip

 

Whatever. I’d argue that the words mean different things now to the era you’re on about, if I could be bothered to argue that is.

 

Fascist

 

Actually the word 'Nazi' is not used in Germany but rather 'Nationale Sozialisten' or rather just the NS period - use of the word Nazi comes only from the English speaking World. The era I'm on about is the important thing because Nazi's and Fascists existed only then - they may have their emulators now but they are only that. These words can't be used to describe people in other ages. Mussolini wanted to emulate the philosophy of the Roman Empire (prior to its turning to Christianity) does that make the ancient Romans Fascists ? The words nowadays are simply used as a form of insult to describe anything we don't like - there is no party anywhere today which calls itself 'Fascist' or 'Nazi'.

 

More stuff in the right wing press about how Starmer would 'steal' Brexit if he got to number 10. Much as I wish he would just come out and say what a catastrophic mistake Brexit was and how he would seek to take the UK back into the Single Market, I actually think Starmer's playing an electoral blinder on Brexit. He's playing both sides - reassuring Brexiters with his categoric denial that he would seek to reverse it, whilst his statement of intent to 'make Brexit work' leads people like me to suspect that he would indeed lead us back into the Single Market. Clever politics.

 

I don’t think he would if Labour won a small majority. Maybe if he had to work with the LDs. Even then I don’t think he could absorb the backlash from our democracy-loving patriotic press.

He needs Brexit cultists as much as the Tories and anyone who still believes the unicorns will deliver isn’t going to think differently in a few years.

Obviously we haven’t really Brexited yet anyway as we aren’t at war with France and you can still buy tomatoes most of the time.

 

You seem quite obsessed with rich people growing there pension pots

 

There may well be a press backlash but polling suggests that rejoining the Single Market would be popular amongst voters....

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A Brexit Compromise? Attitudes towards a Closer Relationship with the EU – What UK Thinks: EU

This suggests that 56% of Leave voters and 63% of all voters would favour regaining access to the single market. Revealingly though, far fewer Leave voters would favour 'agreeing some EU rules as part of a closer relationship' - as if gaining access could be achieved without agreeing any rules.

 

I agree it’s a good thing but being popular isn’t enough. It has to be popular with the right people.

 

Having just watched “Narcos-Mexico”, I’m beginning to think again about this new rule that you must have ID to vote.
Previously I was all in support of it and thought it a good idea to stop any possible fraud, but now I’m not so sure that was the intention. Could it not have been some attempt at “voter suppression”, like what happened in the 1988 Mexico Presidential Elections ? Make it harder or not worth a certain demographic of voter, likely to vote for the opposition, to go out and vote. One way it was done in Mexico was to make out the opposition were doing badly in the early results, thus putting off anyone still to cast their vote, and making them think it was a waste of time as the ruling party were gonna win anyway.
Not saying this was the intention in the U.K., to our off people from bothering to apply for ID and vote, however could be a possibility I think

 

Of course it was voter suppression, even Rees-Mogg says so. He's only saying so because he thinks it backfired and kept away older Tory voters, though.

 

Who doesn't have id these days
How do they collect parcels from the post office etc
Wasn't id offered for free to anyone who wanted one

 

But it’s about making it more difficult for certain voters.
Voter suppression……it’s been done for years

 

were the certain voters stopped from getting free id

 

What's racist today?

Today, air is racist

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74

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13.5K

 

No, but the point of making it difficult is to make people less likely to bother in the first place.
Mexico in 1988 was a classic example, where they showed, falsely, that the ruling party were romping home…..thus leading to many opposition voters saying what was the point in voting as it made no difference…and making a very loose turn out in areas that were close.
Pure manipulation

 

do these certain people not like free stuff

 

If avoiding a queue with your passport is more important to you than millions of the UKs working class getting payrises since the end of EU FoM; then you are a selfish ass!

UK sees fastest wage rises in sectors most reliant on EU workers - Indeed
By David Milliken

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The City of London financial district is seen in London, Britain, October 22, 2021. REUTERS/Hannah McKay
LONDON, Feb 25 (Reuters) - British wages are rising fastest in low-paid sectors where employers previously relied on workers from the European Union, new analysis from recruitment agency Indeed showed on Friday.

Britain saw net immigration of more than 2 million EU citizens between 2010 and 2020, after which EU citizens lost the unrestricted right to work in Britain as a result of Brexit.

Sectors such as construction, cleaning, driving, hospitality and leisure - where EU workers accounted for more than 10% of staff - had seen advertised wages grow 11% between 2019 and 2021, Indeed said based on an analysis of its data.

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By contrast, sectors where fewer than one in 20 workers were from the EU saw advertised pay rates rise just 5% over the period.

"Importing workers from the EU is no longer the safety valve for businesses that it was before Brexit. Employers now have little option but to hike pay to try to entice workers," Indeed economist Jack Kennedy said.

Some of the difference in pay growth reflected how sectors where EU workers had been most common were often also those which had seen the greatest surge in demand during and after the COVID-19 pandemic, Indeed said.

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"Major shifts imposed on the labour market by the pandemic, coupled with the legacy of Brexit, have coalesced into a perfect storm for the occupations previously most reliant on EU workers," Kennedy said.

Before Brexit, economists had found relatively little evidence that high levels of immigration from the EU contributed to the weak pay growth suffered by British workers since the 2008 financial crisis.

Under the new rules, prospective EU workers must meet the same standards on pay and qualifications as those from the rest of the world.

Companies must normally pay staff at least 25,600 pounds ($34,030) a year - about 5,000 pounds less than the average full-time wage in Britain - for them to be eligible for an employment visa. Some sectors with particular labour shortages have lower salary thresholds.