Suso or Wilshere?
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Yeah at the moment,but every man and his dog knows Spanish players are more technically gifted than English players.The only thing Wilshire has one Suso is age and experience.Suso is 17 and Wilshire is 19,I still believe overall Suso is far more talented.
[/QUOTE]Yeah at the moment,but every man and his dog knows Spanish players are more technically gifted than English players[/QUOTE]
So you think by virtue of being Spanish Puyol is definitely technically better than Rooney for example
. I'm not being defensive Ze Liverbird I just think its amazingly stupid to make a statement like that when your player has not been tested at the highest level, or even a medium level.
Jay Emmanuel Thomas was scoring hatricks pretty much every week at youth level and looks for all the world to be a talented player, but does that mean I should make ridiculous comparisons to other players?
So you think by virtue of being Spanish Puyol is definitely technically better than Rooney for example
. I'm not being defensive Ze Liverbird I just think its amazingly stupid to make a statement like that when your player has not been tested at the highest level, or even a medium level.Jay Emmanuel Thomas was scoring hatricks pretty much every week at youth level and looks for all the world to be a talented player, but does that mean I should make ridiculous comparisons to other players?
So you think by virtue of being Spanish Puyol is definitely technically better than Rooney for example
Jay Emmanuel Thomas was scoring hatricks pretty much every week at youth level and looks for all the world to be a talented player, but does that mean I should make ridiculous comparisons to other players?
Okay, go back to the original post. Read the original post. Find where it says I actually compare Wilshere to Suso. I am comparing THEIR POTENTIAL. I wouldn't be bothering to compare their potentials if I didn't think Wilshere is a good player, because whilst you carry on and on about Wilshere being brilliant etc etc... I doubt you have ever seen our academy play.
So you think by virtue of being Spanish Puyol is definitely technically better than Rooney for example .
Firstly centre halves aren't technically gifted.So Puyol isn't.Then again neither is Rooney.
However I still believe that Spanish players are more tactically better than the English.By this I mean that Fabregas will always be head and shoulders technically than Wilshire.So overall I still believe Suso when he gains experience will in terms of overall skill will be superior to Wilshire.
. Firstly centre halves aren't technically gifted.So Puyol isn't.Then again neither is Rooney.
However I still believe that Spanish players are more tactically better than the English.By this I mean that Fabregas will always be head and shoulders technically than Wilshire.So overall I still believe Suso when he gains experience will in terms of overall skill will be superior to Wilshire.
Saying just because a person is Spanish means they are naturally better than an English person technically is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. I'll use a different example then, do you think a spanish attacking midfielder from the second division will be technically better than Gerrard? After all Gerrard isn't Spanish so in your point of view that means the other player HAS to be technically better than him.
Don't try to accuse me of twisting your words because that is what you have written
Don't try to accuse me of twisting your words because that is what you have written
Robin Van Fiberglass.
Question.
Is Fabregas in terms of technical ability better than say Lampard.?
My view is that he is.Secondly I honestly don't think Gerrard is technically gifted,but he's brilliant at what he does and and there is very few players like him that can grab a game by the scruff.He is a match winner,but is he as gifted as Xavi and Iniesta.I'm not so sure.Xabi Alonso is technically gifted,He was probably Liverpools best all-round passer since Jan Molby,but was he a game changer like Gerrard.No,Is Fabregas a game changer like Gerrard,no.Does Fabregas score the same number of goals as Lampard who is a consistent high goal-scorer,no.Different players have different attributes,I reckon the nearest player to Gerrard is Arshavin.Is he technically gifted.No.He's a driver.I reckon Wilshire is he becomes anything will become eventually another Lampard.Good player,but he will never be an Iniesta.Suso has the potential because he is blessed with natural ability to be another Iniesta or at least another Xabi Alonso.
Question.
Is Fabregas in terms of technical ability better than say Lampard.?
My view is that he is.Secondly I honestly don't think Gerrard is technically gifted,but he's brilliant at what he does and and there is very few players like him that can grab a game by the scruff.He is a match winner,but is he as gifted as Xavi and Iniesta.I'm not so sure.Xabi Alonso is technically gifted,He was probably Liverpools best all-round passer since Jan Molby,but was he a game changer like Gerrard.No,Is Fabregas a game changer like Gerrard,no.Does Fabregas score the same number of goals as Lampard who is a consistent high goal-scorer,no.Different players have different attributes,I reckon the nearest player to Gerrard is Arshavin.Is he technically gifted.No.He's a driver.I reckon Wilshire is he becomes anything will become eventually another Lampard.Good player,but he will never be an Iniesta.Suso has the potential because he is blessed with natural ability to be another Iniesta or at least another Xabi Alonso.
Hold up possesion.Thats not a talent,Joey Barton can do that,so can Carrick and even Anderson can do it.
Arsenal on wednesday made use of the little amount of posession they had.They will have even less than they had at the Emirates at the Nou Camp.I'm still convinced Barca will blow them away,they will ensure they aren't as sloppy as they were at the Emirates and they were sloppy.They showed Arsenal too much respect.They by rights shouldn't have showed them any in the same way they showed Real Madrid no respect,they just destroyed them.
Arsenal on wednesday made use of the little amount of posession they had.They will have even less than they had at the Emirates at the Nou Camp.I'm still convinced Barca will blow them away,they will ensure they aren't as sloppy as they were at the Emirates and they were sloppy.They showed Arsenal too much respect.They by rights shouldn't have showed them any in the same way they showed Real Madrid no respect,they just destroyed them.
Can they win back balls? Wilshere had most of Arsenal's possession, most of the midfielder's find it hard to retrieve the ball.
Only the ones like Carrick and Anderson and Scholes that can't tackle.Secondly have you ever heard of defensive midfielders.?
Barcelona have two in Busquets and Mascherano.
Okay Liverpool have
Lucas,but thats being rectified in the summer when we sign a specialist ball winning midfielder.
Barcelona have two in Busquets and Mascherano.
Okay Liverpool have
Lucas,but thats being rectified in the summer when we sign a specialist ball winning midfielder.
Being able to keep possession is a talent, it requires good passing, positional sense and technique. Barcelona don't dominate possession through luck in a football match.
You never actually answered my question, you just randomly talked about how different players are good at different things whereas I was asking why you think every Spanish player is naturally better technically than all English players.
You never actually answered my question, you just randomly talked about how different players are good at different things whereas I was asking why you think every Spanish player is naturally better technically than all English players.
Robin Van Fiberglass.
Do you want to know why,I'll tell you why,the coaching at under age level in the UK is in the stone age.On the continent youngsters are taught the basics at an early age.The basics being simple passing and possesion.Thats why there is massive criticism of 13 year olds in England being made to play 11 a side games.In the UK Its all about strength and very little about football intelligence.One touch football was invented by the Dutch,Bill Shankly and Bill Nicholson of Spurs.They had their own variations,but it amounted to the same thing.
,Shanks version was called ''Pass and move'',Bill Nics version was called ''Push and run'' and the Dutch just called it one touch football.The continentals do most of their work with youngsters with the ball,the English make their youngsters run like greyhounds to increase stamina.They have very little skill.Thats why Spain and Holland were in the World Cup final,thats why Germany are tipped fro greatness when their young side matures,and this is the reason why England are being left behind.Its also the reason why Brazil are 5 times world champions.
Do you want to know why,I'll tell you why,the coaching at under age level in the UK is in the stone age.On the continent youngsters are taught the basics at an early age.The basics being simple passing and possesion.Thats why there is massive criticism of 13 year olds in England being made to play 11 a side games.In the UK Its all about strength and very little about football intelligence.One touch football was invented by the Dutch,Bill Shankly and Bill Nicholson of Spurs.They had their own variations,but it amounted to the same thing.
,Shanks version was called ''Pass and move'',Bill Nics version was called ''Push and run'' and the Dutch just called it one touch football.The continentals do most of their work with youngsters with the ball,the English make their youngsters run like greyhounds to increase stamina.They have very little skill.Thats why Spain and Holland were in the World Cup final,thats why Germany are tipped fro greatness when their young side matures,and this is the reason why England are being left behind.Its also the reason why Brazil are 5 times world champions.
KingPepe.... you sure your not talking about Americans? haha! Not only do we in the US still focus on the size, strength, speed ( getting a little better these days with skill). The problem here is we have so many things that halt the proper progress. You have Club which only trains say 2-3 times a week, you have camps during the summer which is a big money maker for coaches, you have ODP which is the biggest crock of **** as you already pay club fees but if you are the best..... you have to pay more to be on ODP , the supposed best players in the state, region, nation. You have colleges which is fine by me as it gives outlets to players who develop late ( we don't all mature like a Rooney, Gerrard, etc).
Klinsman almost got the US job, the reason he didn't? He wanted to completely revamp the youth set-up, getting away with clubs, ODP, etc and doing it how it is done in Europe with clubs and academys. The right way....... so the US chose Bob Bradley. We will not be challenging until my generation gets a hold of the USSF and NSCAA, the players and coaches who have been exposed to the right way to do things, different cultures, different styles etc, not the BC way we still do things.
What also irks me is the non-relegation we have here, so a team should not go down because it invested in a stadium???
Klinsman almost got the US job, the reason he didn't? He wanted to completely revamp the youth set-up, getting away with clubs, ODP, etc and doing it how it is done in Europe with clubs and academys. The right way....... so the US chose Bob Bradley. We will not be challenging until my generation gets a hold of the USSF and NSCAA, the players and coaches who have been exposed to the right way to do things, different cultures, different styles etc, not the BC way we still do things.
What also irks me is the non-relegation we have here, so a team should not go down because it invested in a stadium???
I'm not talking about the US,I'm talking about the UK,On the continent the fact is they produce far more techically brilliant youngsters.Raheem Sterling is technically good,but the reason for that is not coaching,its because he's gifted.Every so often a country will get a ''Boy Wonder''.In the 80s it was Ronnie Whelan,In the 90s it was Ryan Giggs and Michael Owen,in the 00s its Fabregas.In the 10s its Raheem Sterling.
Oh god first Suso will be better than Wilshire and now Sterling will be better than Fabregas. I despair
I never said anyone will be better than anyone.Fair play to Wilshire he's a good player,but he came through the English system,If he was taught by the continentals they would ensure that he would become better,the coaching in the UK sucks.There is no such thing as bad students just bad teachers.Suso is being taught by ex Barcelona coaches,Wilshire was taught by Liam Brady failed Brighton manager.
Easy KingPepe, I was just saying we have a similar problem, not the boy wonder problem but our grassroots style and giving my insight on how we do it wrong here. I liked McClaren talking about how much more difficult it is to get badges in Germany and how much more advanced the coaching was there.
But our academy is better than most in england, its not like we teach our players to hoof the ball at an early age.