I know but I wasn’t commenting on the past. I was commenting on the rule today as is - So no pen 100% then I commented on my personal opinion Which you or no one else can say is wrong- well you can but it means nothing like my opinion does/doesn’t lol - it’s just my opinion - was just offering a different angle to discuss or ignore. we have discussed baps on here so I didn’t think it was that bad a debate to bring up My personal opinion is the opposite to the rule I think it was a pen or should I say it should be a pen I think it’s crazy that that isn’t a pen under the rules for everything I wrote in the other post However that is simply my opinion I thought my first post was a garbled mess but I thought the second made it clear lol Must be one of those in my head moments
Ok, so let's tidy up the mess. Is it your opinion - regardless of the rules - that when the ball hits a hand it is handball, whether deliberate or not?
Moyes and pundits keep saying Thiago "lunged" in someway suggesting this means its a penalty. It's completly irrelevant and not part of the rules. He made a tackle, he actually touched the ball first, it deflected back of Ings and hit Thiago's arm. Even without him falling over, the deflections mean its not a penalty.
In my humble opinion- handball is handball if it gives you an advantage that you would not have got if the ball continued it’s natural path Last night Thiago’s fall clearly stopped the ball from squirming free in the crowded penalty area - so accidental or not I feel Liverpool gained an unfair advantage from that situation. I guess what I am trying to say is I would like some common sense attached if the exact same thing as last night had happened on the goal line stopping the ball on the line what would have been the decision ? When we had the ball to hand rule and Robbie Keane handled on the line completely by accident for spurs - a pen was awarded and he was sent off - which was not in line with the current rule at the time but because it happened on the goal line and the ball was clearly going in the ref made a judgement call. On that one I thought it should have been a penalty goal but no sending off - but that rule doesn’t exist. Just like when Suarez saved the shot in the World Cup for me - a goal should have been awarded and Suarez sent off. I don’t think the current rule surrounding handball is for for purpose. I feel there needs to be wording relating to probable outcome. I have seen pens given when someone has taken a wild shot that is flying out of play and the player has jumped using their arms for leverage No opposition players in the immediate area and ball going into row d - just cause it’s hit a hand a penalty is awarded. Common sense dictates nothing could have happened 100% but yet pen is given. I think that could be stopped too. maybe some sort of indirect free kick ? I can’t answer your question directly but I have tried to explain my way of thinking. if you are forcing a yes no answer - which is not really fair here imho I would say yes if a ball hits a hand then a handball should be given for every single offence because at least then it’s fair and clear. however I believe that would be abused massively which is why I would like to see the circumstances come into the consideration as a factor. when you look at other sports these are all over the place - high tackle in Rugby - stuff like that. I know this is another topic almost but if the ref was on a microphone last night He could watched the monitor and told everyone what he saw and why he was making the decision. if a ref had said last night that he can see Thiago has kept his arms in a natural position and fallen but he has however stopped the ball from possibly travelling to the opposition and therefore gained an advantage. I feel that would be a fair out come equally if a player is on the by line and running away from goal and chips the ball onto someone’s hand then a ref would be able to explain why that shouldn’t be a pen. again just how I think it should work because I don’t think it was fair on West Ham last night. I just thought it was an interesting discussion
I missed that one. He must be referring to VVD surely. I mean there can't be another player jimmy would pick on surely?
That's a good point. It does seem harsh to deprive someone of an opportunity through an illegal move, but imo its equally harsh to penalise someone for something they couldn't avoid. So, like many rules, it becomes arbitrary - we have to decide one way or the other. Ever since I was a child ( and presumably long before) the rule book has leaned towards the "deliberate" element of it. This seems to be the right way to look at it, imo, if we're talking about a general sense of justice. Imagine a broader scenario, say you ran over your neighbour's cat. If it jumped out in front of you and you couldn't avoid it, it's different to if you deliberately swerved to get the little bastard because it ****s on your petunias. The cat's had it in both scenarios, but in one you're culpable and in the other you're not. Incidentally, I wasn't being deliberately provocative or trying to force you into an over-simplified reply, just looking for clarification of your point of view.
No problem at all - I am just trying to get what’s in my head onto the forum I know I talk twaddle lmao not so sure murder (cause I am a massive animal lover and that is murder ) and the outcome of a game of football should be judged in the same manner But I totally understand the premise of accidental or not I am just on the other side of the fence lol
Just a metaphor, mate. Ok, a less traumatic one. Let's say you swerve to miss his precious moggy and plough up his front garden in doing so, it's different to deliberately vandalising it because his petunias are better than yours, though the outcome is the same. Intent is the issue here, not consequence. I've accepted your point of view, btw - I just have nothing better to do atm than write stuff.
Oh my days lmao no I know it was not a pen according to the rules in fact I not sure I have said that anywhere I think I have said from start I know it wasn’t a penalty according to the rules however, i believe it should be a pen (just my opinion - no more no less) Because of all the stuff I have posted above but in short I believe we gained an advantage due to Thiago stopping the ball with his hand - accidentally or not I don’t feel that is fair or in keeping with the spirit of competition He shouldn’t be carded and maybe it should only a free kick but I believe the rule is currently wrong for situations and moments such as the one last night
