Keen to see how this pans out Will Mason n Stellini have their own methods or will they just rinse and repeat Conte's mantra
They implemented the Dier midfield press against City which worked so well, which surprised me. You'd have thought that they'd have been wary of making any dramatic changes. I'm not sure what that means about Conte's relationship with either them or the club. Does he not really give a **** or does he trust his assistants that much? Hard to tell.
If the caretakers do : - same/worse than current state, god knows what would left to play for by then - better (getting close to the PL form of the final third of last season, miraculously still in the CL etc) , would you trust Conte to resume and get over the line regarding a PL top 4 slot etc ??
I think Stellini will be more or less similar in approach to Conte, both Marseille and City games saw us trying to be solid at the back and hitting on the counter, the City game especially was a sort of "prime Conte" performance, the Marseille game not so much as we were pretty dour in the first half but Hojbjerg's winner in the second was an example of a great Conte type of breakaway. The difference I'm hoping from Stellini to Conte is having the balls to make necessary decisions, both before and during the match. Danjuma should come in for Son and there are other positions where many would like change too. Then mid-game it'll be good if he can mix it up earlier if we need too, it often takes Conte to go 2-0 down before he reacts or alternatively waiting until after 70 mins to make a necessary change that could've been done between 10-15 minutes earlier. Long term I don't think Stellini should be seen as a genuine successor to Conte, there's a chance he wouldn't want that either and also I'd like for us to go with a progressive coach once this era ends. We've had three defensive/ counter-attacking managers in a row and whilst all three delivered some great performances, especially all with one against City, it's just too laborious at times where losses are an awful watch and some wins deliver little excitement/ happiness too. I also think a large majority of the players we have (including those on loan) are more suited to an attacking type of tactic.
Against the Mansourites the increase in our forwards pressing was noticeable, but the real difference was their approach to substitutes as they were logical - Sess replacing the booked and tiring Perisic, Bissouma replacing Son in spite Sonny playing well as shoring up midfield was more important, and Sanchez replacing Deki as we needed a CB after Romero's second yellow Compare that to the subs against Milan: Davies for Lenglet when Lenglet was our only CB not on a booking, Richarlison for Deki even though it made sense to replace Sonny (who was playing like Richy does) and Danjuma for Sonny apparently because making a double sub looked beter
Been reading all this and wondering also how it will all pan out. However I was wondering , if Poch were to come back would he re-employ the same tactics or now he has been away for just over 3 years would he do it differently?
I don't think he'd do things that differently. He seems to almost always play 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. Perhaps he'd stick with the three at the back for a while, but I don't think it'd be a long-term thing.
He was using a 433 at PSG last season, although that may have been due to having to accommodate Mbappe, Messi, Neymar and Di Maria which can't really be done in a 4231 And it really has to be said that 433 looks like the future for us with our current squad, as a midfield three of Skipp, Bentancur and Sarr with Porro and Udogie bombing down the flanks past them is the optimal configuration for the team
433 is meta for a lot of top teams right now, because the mix of players it offers allows a lot of flexibility in on and off- ball shape. Teams will press in something more like a 442 often but then on the ball they’ll dominate the attacking spaces in more like a 325 or 235, depending on if fullbacks invert or CBs push into midfield. Football at the sharp end is increasingly more about roles than positions, which is an incredibly ****e thing to say, but fullbacks don’t just bomb up and down the wings any more. Pep and Arteta have been big proponents of this, Potter too.
The thing about chasing the current meta is that teams automatically know how to counter it, which is a large part of why Conte's system isn't working as expected as the 343 meta was broken a few years ago and now teams know that pressing the two CMs leads to joy (unless one of those CMs is a prime Kante) On the other hand, tweaking the current meta does mean we get a head start if we hit the ground running and can make adjustments on the go, and if we did play 433 we have several options * Straight 433 with attacking FBs, with Skipp dropping between the CBs when the FBs are heading up the pitch so we effectively play 343 when attacking (which isn't unlike how Dier or Wanyama dropped deep when Walker & Rose were pushing forward in both the 4231 or 3ATB formations Poch had us play) * Asymmetrical 433 where the combinations are Porro/Davies and Emerson (or Tanganga)/Udogie where the non-attacking FB pushes inside when we're attacking so we maintain a back three while one of the CMs takes a more active role progressing the ball - which also works if Romero pushes forward, as demonstrated against the Mansourites where Emerson drifted inside to be an auxiliary CB when Romero was taking the ball forward Those both involve players in roles, but the key is that the role isn't being played by the player on the ball but the one who isn't
Given 4231 is just a tweak on 433 too, it’s very flexible. And I think that’s why it’s en vogue. Not particularly arsed about what we do tbh, as long as the right coach is making the decisions.
I'm not convinced that any of these systems work, to be honest. I think that's largely due to the lack of a playmaker and a holding midfielder. We don't have anyone effectively dictating play or protecting the defence. We've got 5 midfielders on the books and I think they're all box-to-box players. They're all good and offer slightly different options, but they aren't any dramatic differences. We don't have a Modric, a van der Vaart or a Carrick. There's no Wanyama or Parker. Just offering comparisons to ex-players to keep it simple.
TBH it looks like 4231 is slipping out of vogue these days, entirely because so many teams have cracked that meta Considering that system was seen as the cutting edge around 2010-12, hence Villas-Boas insisted on using it when he arrived, there's been a lot of time for teams to figure out how to combat it - but most of all I don't think it suits our current squad given playing it would mean three of Bentancur, Skipp, Sarr, Hojbjerg and Bissouma would be on the bench On the other hand a 433 with a DM, playmaker and box-to-box would get better use out of our available squad...if it is a little too Football Manager
Who do you think is best suited to those roles? Box-to-box is any or all of them. The other two? Not so much. Maybe Skipp could be trained into a holding role, but I think even that's a stretch.
Skipp is, broadly speaking, comparable to Parker - and I doubt that's a coincidence given Scott Parker was our U18 coach when Skippy was coming through, especially when you see Skippy using some of the same techniques when he moves the ball forward Bentancur, meanwhile, does sometimes remind me of Huddlestone when he looks to ping balls over the top for players to run onto This is why having so many box to box midfielders should work, because Bentancur should be screened - but the best way to make it work is with three CMs instead of two, because playing two makes it easier to press Bentancur. For example, when Juve won a domestic double and reached the CL final in 2015 they had three CMs so Pirlo could ping balls from deep, Vidal or Marchisio (or both) would screen him with extreme prejudice, and Pogba in a more box to box role. With that in mind our collecting box to box midfielders makes sense...until we refuse to play 352 Skipp would be the base, given his similarities to Scott Parker Bentancur as the playmaker, albeit more of a Huddlestone than a Modric The third would depend on the opponents: Sarr and Bissouma for teams playing busparquet, Sarr or Hojbjerg when we need to be more canny As I said it is a bit Football Manager, but it is a potential solution to our issues of failing to screen our midfield most of this season
Danny Rose has been talking to Harry ****espout ...what, you haven't stopped reading? Okay then: Danny Rose has been talking to Harry ****espout saying he'd be over the moon if Conte stays, but if he doesn't he says we should move heaven and earth to bring Poch back No mention about whether or not he's still waiting to hear from Milan, though
If I was in the dugout I'd probably default to 4231 with Richarlison leading the line and Kane just behind him. Midfield base of Hojbjerg and Bentancur with one sitting and the other roving forward. Kulu and Son either side of Kane. Davies and Royal at FB against better sides, Porro/Spence and Udogie (when he joins) against sides we expect to dominate. Romero and Lenglet at CB. Perisic and Danjuma on the bench to change things up if needed. Dier and Sarr/Skipp/Bissouma if we need to see out a game. I think it has a far better balance to it, stops asking players to perform roles they aren't suited to (Perisic, Royal and Richarlison primarily) and hopefully gets much more out of Son and Kulu by dropping Kane that little bit deeper as he played under Maureen and most of last season. In fact it makes him the focal point of the attack as the wide players' main job is to stretch the play and create space for him, while the CMs need to thread the ball through to him and be prepared to win it back quickly and high up the pitch if he loses it. If Kane is absent, switch to a system more similar to the one we currently play, or perhaps 433.
Il Mattino claim that Napoli coach Luciano Spaletti is on our shortlist should we have a managerial vacancy this summer Looks like we're trying to make hiring ex-Inter managers our thing now...
