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Dr Strangelove (how I learned to stop worrying and love Boris)

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Deletion Requested1, Sep 21, 2021.

  1. FellTop

    FellTop Well-Known Member

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    Lots of variables mate, and as always just an opinion. There is no doubt some universities are flourishing, others however are going the opposite way. I do wonder if some will disappear altogether and there certainly has been media speculation about that, and even the suggestion of government bailouts. The fee has been set for a long period now at a similar rate, with no allowance for inflation. Universities are as vulnerable to increased costs as others so the only real tool is cost cutting / freezing. This plays out in collective pay bargaining and strikes. Brexit has made research grants harder to come by as well and there is a threat to international student numbers, where the fees are far higher. I think I am right in saying there has been a fall in Chinese students recently, as they push for more students to stay at home, which is significant for the uk. Then there is the current tension between the home office who want to limit international students and the education secretary who is against it. If universities are limited in how many international students they can recruit some will feel the pinch keenly. During covid they didnt shut but had to very quickly deliver teaching online. This needed a lot of money to be invested by some. Demographics have been a challenge in some ways, but the future looks brighter.

    Some university leaders have said they dont want to deliver a degree education that only costs the amount set. They want to deliver something much better. Maybe a freerer market would be better with universities setting their own prices. But then the loan system would need to change. If you think about a course that is lab based with hugely expensive equipment, versus a purely classroom based one it is highly unlikely the cost of delivery is the same. Bench fees make up a part of this I imagine.

    One of my very personal opinions, and it could just as easily be rubbish as worthwhile, is we encourage too many students to go to university. I think this ends up in a situation where students who arent equipped going and maybe dropping out after a year, in which case the university is even worse off financially as they lose 2/3 of the revenue. Worse consequences for the student who drops out. I also think a lot of the degrees offered dont lead to an appropriate career and kids leave uni with a big loan and no degree level job. Maybe if fees were higher the vicious cycle would stop because universities dont need the same volume of students, and students are put off by big loans. All a guess of course. I am a fan of T Levels and Degree Apprenticeships and really hope these gain big momentum, I can see everyone winning in that event.

    The last thing I want to see is poorer students disadvantaged. I went to uni, from a poor background, first in my entire family history actually, and was lucky enough to live in an are when I got full financial support. Now they get a govt loan to study and only pay back when they earn above a certain threshold. There are also bursaries and scholarships in some cases. An idea would be to have means testing that provided much reduced fee levels for those that were eligible with the govt topping up. A higher fee level would create space for some inventive thinking.

    Bit of a ramble there, but my jumbed thoughts on the matter.
     
    #7581
  2. Hefty fullback

    Hefty fullback Well-Known Member

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    This sounds very similar to the situation in the US. Universities with large endowments thrive as tech incubators and venture capitalists, while other universities relying on tuition payments for survival feel the crunch.
     
    #7582
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  3. The Exile II

    The Exile II Well-Known Member

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    Principle v Execution.

    I think it was the right decision to leave, but agree that the implementation of the decision has been a disgrace. Caused by the entire political establishment's reaction to it. For my money we should have had a cross party oversight committee overseeing the entire process. Instead we had half of them refusing to accept a democratic vote and trying to overturn it, while the other half wanted to half arse it because it was too much like hard work.
    If that effort had been expended in coming up with viable solutions we wouldn't be where we are now. Only recently has there been an acknowledgement that this has to be made to work, and guess what, we're making headway in various areas. We've wasted years because politicians didn't want their cushy lives disrupted.
     
    #7583
  4. Hefty fullback

    Hefty fullback Well-Known Member

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    I say this with full respect, but only half-jokingly, Don't fret over Brexit -- it was an important first step towards statehood. En51and!
     
    #7584
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  5. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    How does that work.

    Boris Johnson, and the current Government, was voted in with a huge majority and mandate to carry this out.

    I don't understand how, suddenly, everyone is at fault ...

    ... didn't Johnson and the Tories keep boasting that it was 'oven ready'.

     
    #7585
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2023
  6. The Exile II

    The Exile II Well-Known Member

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    We had three and a half years of carnage before that Johnson was given his mandate. Then it went straight on the back burner because COVID was an excuse to do nothing. Even then, the issue didn't split down party lines.
     
    #7586
  7. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    But why wasn't it oven ready as was so emphatically claimed ...

    ... we don't even have all the ingredients yet.
     
    #7587
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  8. The Exile II

    The Exile II Well-Known Member

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    Because of the reasons I outlined. Either thinking that stalling the process will make it go away, followed by sheer laziness.

    How long and drawn out this is going to be is entirely in the electorate's hands. We can continue to vote in halfwits wearing the right colour rosette, or pick better people regardless of party affiliation.
     
    #7588
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  9. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    But I don't understand who's stalling, are you saying it's the Government
     
    #7589
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  10. DH4

    DH4 Well-Known Member

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    Screenshot_20230217-132257.png
    Screenshot of the finale to your video. But I could have sworn I was told yesterday it was a Labour thing <doh>
     
    #7590
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  11. The Norton Cat

    The Norton Cat Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Just wow.
     
    #7591
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  12. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    First we were told Brexit would be done.

    Then we were told it was done.

    Now we're being told we're planning on making arrangements to discuss making a start on getting it done.

    Sounds like my promise to sort out the cupboard under the stairs <laugh>
     
    #7592
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  13. COYCS

    COYCS Well-Known Member

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    Your very optimistic with parties working together, to get this country back on it feet and kicking again is for all members of Parliament to work together.
    Unfortunately it will not happen, but screaming Lord Sutch would approve of the incumbents on both sides of the house right now.

    We have a very poor turnout at election time, this bunch do not inspire me one bit to vote at the next election.
     
    #7593
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  14. The Exile II

    The Exile II Well-Known Member

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    Both sides stalled. One because they wanted it stopped, the other because they had no idea how to do it.
     
    #7594
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  15. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    Both sides?
     
    #7595
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  16. The Exile II

    The Exile II Well-Known Member

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    Well, to use the cupboard analogy, stuff was chucked in there just to get it out of the way. Then you tidy it a little to be able to get to the things you want more easily. Then you get a set of shelves put in.
     
    #7596
  17. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be vague on who's at fault though.

    There's only one party in power and one who can actually do anything.

    Other parties can neither act to make it happen or block it to prevent it happening.

    Johnson said Brexit was oven ready and would be done by Christmas ...

    ... that's clearly either a con or the Government has failed to do what was promised.

    There's no one else to blame except him and the Government.
     
    #7597
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  18. The Exile II

    The Exile II Well-Known Member

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    Yes. You're familar
    Brexit wasn't a tory-labour issue.
     
    #7598
  19. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say it was.

    However, Boris Johnson promised it would be done by Christmas ...

    ... he was either lying or wrong.
     
    #7599
  20. The Exile II

    The Exile II Well-Known Member

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    International relations are never 'done'. It's like completing the internet.

    If you chose to believe him....
     
    #7600

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