All I meant to say is that unless say Elon Musk turned up in deepest Wiltshire (a purely random county) and spent £ billions rural communities cannot possibly compete with big city clubs. Or even small city clubs. He's probaly daft enough to try.
This is something that makes sense to everyone. a town of 5000 people having a league club (forest green example) is astonishingly good work and they must be pulling in fans for a wide area I think norwich was mentioned. ~150,000 people but a large hinterland. which may also count towards support etc. They have a 27k stadium and have a lot of fun bouncing up and down. the current ownership have little interest in growing by the look of it. They seem quite happy have the club sitting where it is taking in cash and parachute payments. Someone could swoop in and take norwich and push them on hugely. But would this be sustainable (which is the point) what if say QATAR buy norwich. build a 60k stadium thats now half full. put 600mil of player son the park and drive cheap tickets to try fill the place. Is this fair to other football outfits like ipswich as long term rivals? The norwich fans get a benefit and a great time but again every other club gets pushed down a place as Norwich now dine at the top table. FFP should take a norwich and enable growth. Fulham, brentford and others prove its possible with a bit of organisation and drive to do more than just bounce up and down. Its hard to stay up and sustain what fulham and brentford are doing BUT the fans are getting a genuine reward in facilities and play on the park. BUT Fulham and brentford cannot currently (or over the long term) compete consistently with the bigger clubs with 60k full stadiums and lots of money.
So FFP is "protecting the big clubs". And yet the biggest club in the league (in terms of revenue and resources) is the one under investigation. Funny that.
I've heard that line from a lot of fans of non top 6 type clubs. Its mostly bitterness. The odd thing is they don't seem to see how the prem set up of much more equal payment of tv money make the lower divisions completely skewed and unfair (parachute payments) If we look at la liga, theres 2 clubs hoovering up the money rather unfairly. Theres b teams all up and down the lower leagues. But if you are lower half top league the drop to second teir isn't as great. What we see today is a vastly rich premier league where 20th = 100mil. the top of championship is awash with cash and then the standard rapidly drops off. The reality is how a small club like Brentford (relatively speaking for thier area) can come up needs to be protected. They worked hard to do it. BUT they were saved by a rich man coming in and taking them on in league 2. The difference is he was a brentford fan. He was invited in by the fan owned club and asked to buy them. Btrenford now represent a 100million pound investment by that man. The reward is they take in 100million a year even if relegated. FFP should NOT stop people doing this with football clubs. FFP needs to stop oil states and ridiculously stupid yanks putting 600mil into a team and sportswashing or building debt to the point thats just skewing the whole thing. FFP should not protect LFC or Man Utd's historically based entitlement to win trophies. It should ensure that LFC fans and Man utd fans get the faculties their ticket money deserves while enabling other well supported teams like leeds or everton build up to 50/60k stadiums and win things if they can. We want to see more brentfords and less Man city/chesleas. If that means traditional big clubs don't win as much so be it..... but its crystal clear its not working when man city have cheated to 6 of last 10 league titles, 6 of last 10 league cups and of course the one FA cup. If anything city have been unsuccessful in thier buying of football given how few European trophies they've secured.
Norwich have a nice thing going though. Too good for the Championship not good eniugh for the Premiership. Take the Premiership money when in it, use the parachute payments to get out of the Championship and repeat. Owners pay themselves nice dividends.
and fans get **** all. They have a nice time in the championship watching winning but have to pay to watch their side trounced up and down the premier league no new facilities.
A nice thing for the oiwners for sure not so much for fans but it does at least allow them to be in the Premiership sometimes. Without the 'scam' it may not happen at all without new richer owners willing to spend.
Well as I said FFP shouldn't block rich owners. it should just make them live within their means while improving. If someone like Brentford owner wants to build the fans a nice new stadium or a training ground or whatever, work away. the pay off will come eventually. If someone wants to flush 600mil on players like the Todd then its not good. the difference is builders build a 600mil stadium and it stands there for 30 years for the fans to go to. someone throws 6000mil at players then the parasite agents, foreign clubs etc all take the money laughing and the prices for all other clubs go up for players. nothing good comes of it. Chelsea fans were sold a boehly pup with 1.75billion for a new stadium. No sign he's interested there yet. They've just gambled the entire clubs future on a transfer tactic on loans and been enabled to do so. Still a ****ty little ground relatively
I think we should be questioning the motivation on why now I am not the only one thinking this too I will wait until the verdict is delivered these allegations are from a decade ago so they haven’t exactly rushed to defend the integrity of the product however they have fair moved sharpish recently strange I still don’t know what most of you think should happen to City if they have broken the rules over a decade of allegations which gave them an unfair advantage What should happen not what will
I agree you are not the only only for sure. The timing does smell fishy as there was no reason not the hit city at the exact same time as UEFA or shortly thereafter. SOME allegations stretch back a decade to when mancini was illegally paid under the table and is a tax dodger. however you must see that some sate form 5 years ago and the only reason there's not more is city stop co-operating with anything in 2018 and as such some charges for for exactly that. under prem rules failure to cooperate and be transparent is a offense. As much as the timing smell like the Prem are looking with one eye are regulations coming in and being seen to be doing the job.... well there's still live offenses happening today with city. The premier league rules all 20 clubs are bound by is open and transparent accounting. City are not doing it RIGHT NOW. The motiviation certinly should be questioned, but thats a separate issue to whether or not city have been doing wrong.
I think many of us answered that days ago. If they are found guilty of breaking the rules then they should be stripped of any trophy they acquired through that transgression. The rules are the rules regardless of whether you agree with them. You can't escape a speeding fine by claiming the speed limit is unfair.
I have asked and said loads lol Easing off now My fragile brain hurts too much now But I have loved reading the opinions Cheers all
I understand that you have a different opinion but that bolded bit I have a big problem with. It's also why that view coming from you shocked me if I'm honest. I'm not about to criticise your background because I don't know you and I don't want to presume anything or run the risk of offending. I will just try and be as honest as you have been. I'm from a working class background that puts hard work high up on the list. Someone who has worked hard and well and fulfilled their aspirations, achievements and goals being displaced by mr. nobody financed by his rich father, doesn't sit well with me at all. The idea that there's already a gulf between classes/clubs etc. so instead of trying to lessen the gulf we may as well make it wider, similarly is a foreign idea to me. Again, it's why I'm genuinely baffled by your take on this because you have appeared to have the same values as me. You are saying that breaking 'the rule' - still not sure which particular one you mean, you haven't said - is alright because it's a daft rule. I think there's a bit of the magician's deflection tactic at play; look over here and see what's unfair somewhere else while I pick your pocket. The despotic regimes will be delighted with you because it means their sportswashing is working. I have to add that I am obsessive about fairness, (which is why it's usually me on the match threads bringing up referees performance). I can't see how flagrant rule breaking is okay. With regard to winning the lottery I agree that you should be able to spend the money how you like providing it's legal. Buying a football club with the money would be entirely legal but once you've bought the club you have to stay within the rules because if you don't, you're cheating and I'm not okay with that. Do you have a problem with rules in general or people telling you what to do?
Just when I thought I was out….. There is a cracking scene in South Park where they are looking for a dancer to join a dance group they ask a group of non conformists to join One by one they all say they are non conformist and won’t join the dance group the 4th dude says they are soooo non conformist that they will non conform and join the dance group that’s me lol I am married and have 2 children - been married since 2006 apparently this used to be the norm but is not now lol I do not pretend to know all of the allegations against City but at the moment they are only allegations and that’s just chit chat so I will try to stick to that one line I wrote about a millionaire coming in you are talking about fairness and I think it’s obvious that it can never ever be fair and we have done that to death up above and even when people say things they think proves it’s fair it somehow to me looks like it’s even more unfair. No idea how to put this into words Will try but I may not get this right Man Utd are an older club who have built and in most sane peoples mind deserve the success they have As are Liverpool both of those clubs successes are built over time and patience and allegedly staying within the rules - now weren’t we involved in something where it was implied that we had stolen information from Man City - would that be cheating ? - both clubs over the years have been accused of all sorts of cheating and brown paper envelopes and stuff - none of it proved though Both of those clubs - through being bigger have been able to just take players away from clubs whenever they wanted within reason. then Chelsea came along and by virtue of the fact they haven’t been found guilty (and I say again strangely Leicester were found guilty but somehow no one cared and the only reason they were in the Prem to win it was because they cheated and broke FFP - so surely their title should be stripped ?) But Chelsea changed the game financially then City have come along and taken it upto another level. The more established clubs have then moaned and bleated (imho) until the rules are changed - (something that many lower league clubs have tried to get done in the past I am led to believe but they could not get changed through they wanted) the rules then get changed and until what city have done becomes clear then I can’t really say any more than I already have done. up until that point the established big clubs have generally been the established big clubs because of a number of things so to the untrained eye - this has all the hallmarks to me of a bigger shark coming along and people getting upset as I keep saying when this is all over and they pay a small fine and keep all their titles will everyone be satisfied with that because they have been found guilty and paid the agreed penalty I suspect not I understand your ideals on building and working hard - I work seven days and nights a week to make ends meet but can never get ahead But that’s just life but who is to say a trillionaire coming in shouldn’t have the right to take a club to dizzy heights I think that your issue lies with more the morality of where the money has come from and once again I find myself saying that we are now with Nike - not going to go into it but their are atrocities everywhere if you are watching the Prem you have already made your stance imho and there is nothing wrong with that Because all the clubs have skeletons in the closet I go back to the World Cup which I didn’t watch and if there is an ESL (which I think there should now be) I won’t watch it end of - that’s all I can do No I don’t have a problem with rules to answer the question lol I am just odd in the way I process things you say you are obsessive about fairness and I think you aren’t obsessive enough because there is no fairness in football there never has been and there never will be Blackburn are a cracking example Bought the title but had zero means of sustaining it Leicester cheated to win theirs Unlikely they win it again The teams likely to win it are those who can afford to make mistakes (said this somewhere above) City are difficult to beat for that reason They buy a player for £60mil Doesn’t work - it’s okay we just buy another repeat 20 times then when another club buys 2 players for 145 mil we will whinge it’s all mind games and crap but it will never ever be fair once I arrive at that decision where I accept it’s not fair Like doing drugs in the olympics my brain says well if it is not fair why try and stop a new club try to take over at the top because the stuff they are doing wrong imho isn’t Really being treated fairly (so non conformist but lol ) in fact it almost seems like they are trying to bring in rules to stop them. (Like they did with us with the back pass rule imho- lol) if a trillionaire comes in and writes off all the debts - so not a bury or a Portsmouth- and sends Wyre Villa a rural club with 15 supporters to the CL Final - then why is that so wrong rules have been put in place to STOP that happening - that doesn’t seem fair to me if anything it prevents competitors and competition City have certainly competed No one complained with Leicester so why city ? No idea if that explains my ‘logic’ any better but I tried lmao you then add in the potential why they (the Prem) are doing this and it stinks even more. Lol
When I start to really think about this Take Real Madrid I mean Really don’t need to go any further lol
Sorry mate, but your posts are becoming more and more mitoesque and my old attention span is getting shorter. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but you appear to be listing things from the past that are equally unethical in your eyes. You may be right, but does that mean we let such things go on ad infinitum, or do we address them now? We can't change the past, but we can steer the future. Chelsea got away with their stuff because the rules weren't in place then, but they have been for City and the rest of us for a while now. It may seem like a case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, but there are plenty more horses still inside and we don't want to let them all out.
To keep it brief yes I think that’s where I am almost at I think I have long decided that it is unfair Nothing can be done to alter that Because fundamentally football is and will always be unfair It’s not life and death it’s a ……… I say business Seems unfair to address things like this now imho I thinks it’s where you wish to draw the line Luckily that line is not in my hands The ‘rules’ to protect integrity seem to be doing more damage (a bit like VAR) and this is stretching back ten years btw that said if they are guilty and proved Decimate them and everyone else who has cheated