So what we’re saying is all 92 clubs in football have the exact same opportunity for growth. But those below that don’t have same chances that Liverpool and man United do
my point is Oldham is not really its own place, it's greater Manchester and rife with utd fans so Oldham are **** and can't afford to compete really. the Blackburn, while it's a club not competing with anyone still is a club in a city that's relatively small so can't support a large club. 150k population preston is nearly double the size yet for some reason their historic club has never got back to where it was many many decades ago. liverpool is not a "large city" but will have two big stadiums that would basically empty the city to full (exaggeration bit still) I am assuming that's what rural might mean though... that's all. just guessing here. smaller cities will struggle to house a Premier league team and support it, especially if another sport is there in force like say Wigan. Birmingham is the second city after London really. it still only has one prem club and a second perennial struggled for no real reason. Manchester itself is not that big but greater Manchester is far greater and really that's how utd have the fan base.
look, the debate has been can you get fans in the doors and afford to buy players. liverpool can sell out 60k easily and Everton can sell out 50k I think. that's 110k in a city of 500k (ignoring surrounds and out of town) a club like Leeds had 30k in in league 1. just massive support built over generations. if you take a club like Bournemouth who had 11k stadium and in the 1990s nearly went out of business you can see what clubs can actually do. but it's bloody hard to do and Bournemouth is an affluent area and has a compatible population to us.
Not quite that But it something like that I am trying to get across Problem is I am not very eloquent there are lots of things that come into the equation investors are a big part And that sort of why I used Leicester as an example they absolutely cheated and got caught but no one was arsed in the slightest a club like Wyre Villa - Langho could never ever ever ever become a Liverpool They just couldn’t city/town/village is an easy way to show differential yes there will always be exceptions to the rule a lot of supporters of bigger clubs just don’t see the advantage they have why should a team not be allowed to win the lottery In fact let’s say that happens Let’s say I goto America and win 750million on the lottery or I invest in stocks and I earn 14 trillion because I did real good I then decide to invest all my money into Wyre Villa Why is that bad I am not totally against what a lot of you say There are very salient points but at the heart of it I feel you are missing something big and I don’t seem to be able to explain it.
I wasn't specific enough in my comment about clubs having equal opportunities for growth. I was talking about PL clubs since we're talking about man city and how their cheating has given them an unfair advantage. It hasn't given them an unfair advantage over Forest Green or Wyre Villa. It's given them an unfair advantage over the other PL clubs. You can't go back and start all over again so Forest Green will have an almighty task to get equality with any PL team. The opportunity to rise up through the leagues is always there though and that's what clubs are doing week in, week out. No club started life in Division 1 or the PL.
Because of derby. Because of bury. Because of portsmouth. That’s what ffp was brought in to stop. It’s not meant to stop clubs being able to grow, Newcastle have spent more money in last 2 windows than previous 10 probably. Not because they’re now state owned but because owners are allowing them to spend. Ffp was brought in to stop clubs spending silly money they can’t afford and then suddenly going bankrupt and not only being relegated but going into admin. Not only is that protecting players but it’s to protect the admin stuff. The canteen staff. The suppliers who lose out and don’t get paid. Now, if your argument is ffp isn’t fair, totally get that. But ffp is there to stop clubs going bust. And those are the rules everyone signs up to. If you sign up to own an tv and as part of that you have to turn it off for 12 hours each day and you agree to it. You can’t then say you don’t like that cos you wanna watch it for 13 hours then moan when you’re punished?
Got to admit I surprised myself I think when you mentioned rules to keep it fair I am trying to point out a few things the rules don’t keep it fair in fact the rules have actually protected the bigger clubs not made the playing field level. by stopping a club from winning the lottery all it does is allow the ones at the top to remain at the top you may get a Brighton a Leicester but they will eventually fall by the wayside Utd can afford to have a manager **** it up once twice maybe three times A team like Burnley cannot afford to have a manager **** up once A team like Wyre Villa just laugh at the idea of competing full stop most top level teams come from a city or a town all over the world show me a rural team playing at the top level in football with a rich history and a global fan base there is a reason that’s happens and it’s not a coincidence
Oh I know that but it it has also protected the bigger clubs And I don’t see how anyone can argue that is not the case The clubs you listed aren’t rural they are towns The northwest is actually an area that Cannot sustain so many clubs Like I say I struggling to explain my train of thought but I know what I mean lol
Yep agree with that. However city and large towns had the opportunity to grow quicker because they had the means for support so was never fair And it never could be it’s actually impossible I think Because teams like Utd are now a global business and us which is why it’s not as simple as sport, rules, fair etc Utd will use their resources to grow their brand and we all think that’s okay because it’s earned but a lottery winner cannot come in and jet propel a team to status above Utd - I can’t agree with that I believe investors should be allowed to invest in whatever club they want and however much they want that’s also why I think the ESL is a good idea and it will make things a bit fairer for a while not saying I would watch it like we then get back to the rules business which I have already given my view so don’t want to bore you all again lol I know I am the minority but it is just the way I feel and yep surprised me lol
Because there are rules in place. All football clubs that are in a league, whether that's youngsters or elite level, sign up to a set of rules. If they break them, there are consequences. If you wanted to buy Wyre Villa and plough £millions into them, how does that affect competition? It shatters it. If there were no rules about spending and finances in whatever league they play in, then good luck to you and them.
Again agree on loads of that too but Man City aren’t going to go bust They are being accused of cheating because they have on one of the counts brought in sponsorship from a company that is probably themselves Do the rules state they can’t do that ??? This is what will be interesting- I have already stated that they should be decimated IF they are found guilty for breaking the rules however none of us - including me think they will be punished - which actually make a mockery of the whole thing anyway it’s a bit like the clubs you mentioned Derby didn’t fold still exist Portsmouth didn’t fold still exist Bury all sorts positive going on around them - they will return but when they all hit administration and had no money they got hit with a fine ?? Which didn’t exactly help did it city have oodles of money and will probably get fined - matters not a joy to them the rules are not fit for practice and it’s yet to be decided whether the rules have been broken I am all over the place now lmao
But because of those rules no one can ever catch up with a Utd or a Liverpool either Which is great of you are one of the bigger clubs but bobbins if you are not look at our top league You may get the odd team that changes season after season but generally look at the teams in 1980 who were in the top league in this country Look how many are there now (which is where I started all this lol)
Heerenveen in Netherlands is a tiny town with population of 29,000 they've made their way through from German occupation to being in the top Dutch league (since 1993). Two small villages in Czech Republic, Blsany and Drnovice both made their way to the top Czech league. Eibar in Spain, nowhere to now in La Liga. I doubt any have global fan bases but like all sports only the top, top teams and players/athletes get massive support. Also ... I think you really need to read up on exactly what city have done. It isn't just one sponsorship deal, it's literally hundreds of millions of pounds being ploughed in off the books.
If that’s proved then they should be decimated Those clubs aren’t in England and they have different setups in their respective countries and their top teams arent spending what Utd Liverpool City Chelsea - the Prem are and they still aren’t competing Year in Year out for CL but would have more chance than uk There was a crazy stat on BBC that said something about the prems spend compared toEurope and that almost proves my point Look at Bayern PSG Ajax All those teams When were Herenveen last in CL and how many years did they represent you are almost proving exactly what I am trying to get across why cant teams catch Celtic and Rangers in Scotland Bayern in Germany I understand every so often that someone manages it but their is a reason they can’t sustain it City are in no danger of doing a Bury or a Derby. 29,000 isn’t rural That’s like Fleetwood (25,000) that’s a town And again that supports what I am saying A Town can support a team but they won’t challenge for CL regularly Rural - population usually hundreds to small 1000s They just cannot do it and not being pedantic but none of those teams listed ticked all the criteria but I know there will be one somewhere as there are always exceptions to the rule but that’s sort of not the point
the examples given are good. if we think about the criticisms of ffp on both sides. the mega rich egotistical types want to spend to look good. they don't want any constraints the smaller clubs or average fans consistently state ffp protects "big clubs" without defining what that means. the insinuation I hear is that the ladder is pulled up behind the big clubs. I would state this differently. if you have hard core support who go to games week in week out you will rise up the leagues just fine as long as you have good owners who are not wasters. if we look at the example of Fulham. Great example of varied approaches over the years, the "star player" George best being brought in. the high spending times previously. but now? building the ground up finally. rewarding the fans who've stuck by that club. same for Brentford. the passion being rewarded. the size of club still directly links to support the reality of the money is that some clubs now jump the queue massively and are not that supported. newcastle have some of the most passionate and loyal fans in the league. I'm almost (as in almost due to some extremely nasty don't care attitudes) sorry for them that they have had to endure for so long and then get turned on now cos their clubs been sold to a despot.
