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The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 19th January)

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by ellandback, Jan 19, 2023.

  1. Marcos Barber

    Marcos Barber Well-Known Member

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    The thing is Doc, it is such a small % of players that just break through and own Premier League Football and, as everyone knows, the financial rewards and risks are so big, that won't change anytime soon. Lots of the youngsters we have either brought or developed will go on to do really well but, likely not with us simply because the club will be looking for that one that really will make the grade within a required timeframe for the investment to be worth it.

    I was trying to think of an example so have gone with Nathan Ake, simply because he is a Centre Back like Charlie. Nearly 2 minutes of research on Google (I am no Aski unfortunately) and this is his career to date: Chelsea signed him in 2012 when he was 16/17 from Feyenoord and kept him until 2015 when they loaned him to Reading when he was 19/20. Later on that year and into the following year another loan at Watford and then in 2016 until 2017 a further loan to Bournemouth. In 2017 when he was 22, Chelsea decided to cash in and he signed permanently for Bournemouth. Chelsea obviously decided to reinvest in other youth looking for their next Mason Mount or Reece James. Even Gallagher may have to move on to find a permanent home. In 2020 when he was 25 he then got another move back to the very top with City and will win all sorts.

    The relevance is, even the likes of Chelsea will move on highly promising youngsters if they haven't ticked every box in the required timeframe. Highly qualified professionals will be watching Charlie (and all of the other youngsters) and will have a decision to make at some point. Let's face it, even Millwall aren't totally convinced - yes, the club captain plays in the same position but, if Charlie were tearing it up, he wouldn't keep getting dropped.

    Personally, I hope he (and Joffy) get further loans until at least the end of next season before we make a decision. If one of them makes the grade, it pays for many more to try going forward.

    I only saw Charlie live once (against West Ham last season). As a player, I would have scored him 6. As a youngster, I would have said 7.5 to give him some leeway. Very strong and good in the air, natural leader and surprisingly good at carrying the ball out (always like a player that can do that with his head up). Perceived weaknesses, not the quickest (genuinely not sure if he will ever be quick enough for Premier League Football) and got rolled several times by Antonio. No shame in the second part because that is something I think can be coached out, even with slightly better positioning. It was the pace aspect (same with Joffy to be fair) that left me 50/50 on yes or no.

    It is easy to get excited about all of the youngsters (and I actually thrive on your enthusiasm) but the above is the reality for all of them.
     
    #81
  2. Aski

    Aski Well-Known Member

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    Just to follow on from Marcus' post whilst Ake is one you could say has turned into a success, I decided to spend 5 minutes of my time on Google, looking for someone that a club probably think they held onto too long.

    I give you Matthew Pennington. Signed by Everton as an 11 year old. Signed a 2 year contract with Everton when he was 19, and extended it for 3 years, when he was 21. After his loan spell with ourselves, he signed a further 3 year contract with Everton and eventually at the age of 26 he left Everton having played 7 games in the league for them, joining Shrewsbury in League One. During his time at Everton he played a total of 140 league games over a period of 8 years, due to various loan moves. You have to wonder why they extended his contract after playing for ourselves as by that age, it should have been obvious that he wasn't going to make it in the Premier League, nor command a big fee.

    As Marcus says, all clubs have to decide when to move younger players on so they can reinvest in youth development, and from a clubs point of view, especially at Premier League level, it's worth the risk of missing out on someone who ends up going onto bigger and better things. Can't really comment on Cresswell as not seen him play enough first team football, but I'm guessing the club are thinking given how this season has gone, it's unlikely he will feature often for us next season, so is it worth waiting a further 18 months to see how his development progresses or do we accept a decent offer for a transfer fee.

    Personally I'd take the risk of seeing how the next 18 months go, although it also depends on how Cresswell sees his career developing
     
    #82
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
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  3. Marcos Barber

    Marcos Barber Well-Known Member

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    Just looked at Tom Pearce “he’s one of our own” (even though he actually wasn’t). Now 24 and at Wigan until 2024 but one I really thought would make it - 6 league appearances last year and a couple of cup games.

    Left Back not CB I know but it shows how tough it really is.
     
    #83
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  4. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    I thought TP was going to make it too.

    Fools seldom differ? <whistle>
     
    #84
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  5. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone remember the ages of The Don's kids way back? Wasn't Eddie just 16 on his debut? Billy 17? Lash 15!? Pretty sure there were others similarly young. How many would have made it if they were starting out as kids now?
     
    #85
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  6. Eireleeds1

    Eireleeds1 Well-Known Member

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    Remember back then teams weren’t saturated with foreign imports. None of the three might have made it if there was shed loads of Germans French etc filling up the squad
     
    #86
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
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  7. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    In fairness the foreign imports were jocks and they were some of the best players in top teams. It also meant the jock national team had a very good squad as they were taught by the English. Leeds, Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton, Forest, Villa, WHU, Fulham, Wolves all had some great foreign imports from north of Carlisle
     
    #87
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  8. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    excellent post Marcos… spot on <cheers>. I would just add an additional point that. Sometimes it’s the players driving it. Not all will keep extending contracts to be sent out on loan - and push for a permanent move if they know they’re not in first team picture.
     
    #88
  9. Marcos Barber

    Marcos Barber Well-Known Member

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    Thank you young man and you are quite right. I actually considered the player angle but thought I waffled on enough as it is <laugh>
     
    #89
  10. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    <ok> As is self evident… I never worry about waffling on too long fella <laugh>
     
    #90

  11. Eireleeds1

    Eireleeds1 Well-Known Member

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    We know
    <ok>
     
    #91
  12. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, it’s self evident. But I’m still tempted to write an essay in denial <laugh>
     
    #92
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