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Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Arsenal

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Jan 12, 2023.

  1. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Knowing our luck we'll beat them 4-0
     
    #261
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  2. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy
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    Therefore, I’m sure you will agree that our ticket prices should be 5/6th highest not the highest ticket prices in the league
     
    #262
  3. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    Romano: Sporting still insist on release clause for Porro.
    Abola: Spurs and Sporting remain far apart over an agreement for Porro.

    Can’t believe Sporting won’t accept £27m + Emerson for their star player. Shame on you, Sporting! <rofl>
     
    #263
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  4. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    Ladies and gentlemen, Ryan Sessegnon.
     
    #264
  5. BrunelGunner

    BrunelGunner Well-Known Member
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    Been quite busy the last few days, so haven't had time to post my thoughts properly.

    I honestly didn't expect us to play as well as we did, especially as the atmosphere was roaring for the first 10 minutes or so, and thought we may have felt intimidated by the hostile environment. By equal measure, I definitely expected more from Spurs, mainly in the first half. I know we're performing extremely well this season, but we're not perfect and you didn't give yourself an optimal chance to win the game or exploit our vulnerabilities. Whatever you think about the calibre of (some) of your players, they are capable of playing better. I've seen worse Spurs sides beat better Arsenal sides than this. Conte is to blame.

    Conte made the same mistake from the match at The Emirates. He is still wedded to this 3-4-3 and, whilst your players started the game on the front foot and pushing quite high, you ended up dropping deeper and deeper as the game went on. This was because you weren't able to deal with the midfield overloads. The numerical 3v2 advantage we had in the middle meant that, as Sarr and Hojbjerg were marking Odegaard and Xhaka, Partey had more freedom to progress play or pick a pass out. Why Conte did nothing to immediately rectify this is beyond me because we ended up winning all the first/second balls, winning most of the aerial duels and were keeping the pressure on. Arteta utilising this 2-3-5 formation when we have possession means all channels are occupied by an Arsenal player. This creates gaps because it forces defenders to shut down the distances between attackers and the ball. This is where Zinchenko inverting comes in handy because he becomes another midfield option and his technical ability/verticality was crucial in helping us keep pressure up the pitch. Saka had a great game, but one thing which went under the radar was his defensive work, as he was tracking back to help our defence form a back 5 when we didn't have the ball. We closed most of the avenues you would usually take when you were attacking, forcing you to play the ball backwards, sideways or play stray passes forward.

    Second half, you rallied (as expected), with Kulusevski being the main thorn in our side, but Ramsdale was in top form. We also relieved the pressure off our defence by winning a lot of fouls and disrupting the flow of the match. Although I wasn't happy with how much we ceded territory and control, I was fairly confident in the stability of our defence to keep you at bay. Gabriel and Saliba marshalled Kane well and Son's awful form continued into this one. Kulusveski was by far your most dangerous player, but he couldn't get you back in the game.

    I've seen some comments saying that Spurs played fine (in the second half) and that their performance wasn't that bad. I'm not sure I agree. If Arsenal had played like that, I wouldn't be happy, especially in a home game knowing our fiercest rivals could extend their lead at the top of the league. It's all well and good showing passion when you're 2-0 down, but a football game lasts 90 minutes. If you don't play well for the entire 90 minutes, you are more at risk of not winning. That first-half especially wasn't acceptable despite the tactical advantages we had.

    You can't carry on rescuing games in second halves and expect to win every time. Conte's done nothing to address this issue. Also, bringing on attacking changes in the 87th minute? What was the point? His in-game management wasn't good enough either.
     
    #265
  6. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

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    We haven’t played well for 90 mins all season. I think your analysis is pretty fair and many good points. Now the dust has settled a bit I’m still fuming but it wasn’t our worst performance this season, even if it hurts the most. That’s damning with faint praise though. Like you say, Ramsdale had a great game and when you concede that kind of own goal so early in a game, it changes the complexion of the match. I can’t say I’ve watched a huge amount of Arsenal this season, but what stood out was the technical proficiency of every player and the tactical and positional work that Arteta has drilled into them. I think the man is an utter cock but he’s clearly a very good coach, unfortunately.

    Your tactical and technical advantage was evident from kickoff and I’m continually surprised that Conte hasn’t used 352 as much this season, given it has been effective on occasion for him in the past at Spurs. The 343 can work even when outnumbered in midfield but coaches need to strike a balance between tactical dogma and pragmatism given the resources at their disposal, which Conte is failing to do at present. For it to work in those circumstances, players need to perform near perfectly, and we have too many who make the occasional massive blunder (Dier, Lloris) or who are simply off the boil - Sonny being the most obvious. We were of course missing Bentancur, who may have helped, but ultimately coaches have to adapt to circumstances. The team is not in its best form and being outnumbered in midfield against a side with the quality of Arsenal was always going to be a massive risk.

    We desperately need to get Kulu out of his rusty post-injury phase, though he showed glimpses in the second half, and get Richy and Bentancur fully fit so they can contribute as starters. I believe we can rescue top 4 this season if we can get through the second half of the season without the injury plagues of the first half, and if we make the right additions over the coming weeks. But both are big ‘IFs’ right now.
     
    #266
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  7. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The thing with 352 is that Conte seems to have deliberately sandbagged using it as the starting formation in the Man Utd game

    Before that match we were switching to it in order to regain control of midfield, and that often led to us turning games around and that in turn led to fans demanding we start using that as our default. But then came the Man Utd game where Perisic was playing as a LW and Davies as LWB that effectively had us playing a 253, and since then whenever we've played a five-man midfield we always see completely baffling tactical decisions such as Skippy playing as a RW

    In short, either the systems are so complicated that players are making it up as they go along in the hope it doesn't go horribly wrong, or the systems are trying to be too clever while forgetting decades of jokes about the average IQ of footballers
     
    #267
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  8. The Huddlefro

    The Huddlefro Well-Known Member

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    There’s something in what you say. But coaches need to find solutions to problems. If we can’t deal with being outnumbered in midfield by a technically superior team by playing 352 then Conte needs to put that winning brain to work and figure something out. With everyone fit and on form we can deal with it by using 343 and playing on the counter while being solid and compact off the ball, but we’re a long way from being able to do that right now given the current state of many of our key players.
     
    #268
  9. BrunelGunner

    BrunelGunner Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I think a 3-4-3 can work too, but as you've mentioned, you need the right profile of player who can specialise in that area. The two central midfielders in a 3-4-3 need be more than physically athletic, aggressive, have good stamina and cover lots of ground (as well as being technically proficient); they also need to be tactically intelligent and have spatial awareness. Moreso if they're going to be up against teams deploying a quantitative advantage in midfield. Hojbjerg and Sarr (making his first start in the league wasn't he?) simply aren't specialists in those area, and it was definitely unfair to put that responsibility on Sarr to fulfil a role like that. He needed to play a different formation and approach the game differently in this match IMO.

    Conte needed to be more proactive in his game management early on and he didn't do it. I know he's a very decorated manager, but he's not doing a great job right now. And whilst your owners receive plenty of flack (justifiable in some instances, less so in others), Conte cannot be absolved from responsibility. You have good players in that team who are underperforming. It's his job to maximise what he's got. He's not doing it.
     
    #269
  10. deedub93

    deedub93 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, perhaps we should play 6-4-0 in the first half and 2-4-4 (incl wing backs) in the second half.
     
    #270

  11. Citizen Kane.

    Citizen Kane. Well-Known Member

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    Sarr was one of the few Spurs players who could leave the pitch with his head held high. Given that was his first PL start following just 2 sub appearances, and the magnitude of the game, he was really impressive.

    But the fact he started over Bissouma, who for 2-3 years was one of the highest-rated CMs in the division, has to raise certain uncomfortable questions - the first of which is why we bothered signing him in the first place if the manager clearly doesn't want him, the second of which is why or perhaps how Conte still hasn't managed to get more out of him given his talent and experience.

    And that's what baffles me about Conte. All season he's ignored the simple solution to any given problem and gone for the more complicated and risky one. There is no consistency whatsoever. Another example was handing Sessegnon his first league start since the WC. What was the problem? You lot having Saka at RW. Solution A: Go with a defensive LWB to counter this, our best and most experienced being Ben Davies. Solution B: Force Saka onto the back foot more often by playing Perisic. Solution C: Play our least experienced and least talented defensive LWB. So of course Conte opted for C despite all of us calling it before the game as a terrible decision, and so it proved to be.

    Similarly playing Sarr. What was the problem? Arsenal's 3-man midfield. Solution A: Mirror it with a 3-man midfield of our own. Solution B: Play an experienced, PL-proven player. Solution C: Start a 20 year old who literally played his first minutes a few weeks ago. It is to Sarr's credit that he emerged with pride intact and didn't have a bad game at all.
     
    #271
  12. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    At this point 4321 seems to make a lot of sense both in terms of playing on the counter and also maintaining our shape

    Obviously there's issues there, as Perisic can't play in a back four and Doherty certainly wasn't a fit for that formation under the ubermensch, but on the other hand we already know Romero, Lenglet and Davies can play in a back four (as can Emerson and Sessegnon...) and a midfield three of Bentancur, Sarr and Hojbjerg with Skipp and Bissouma to come in is likely to be more assertive in games

    And it does need to be said we switched to a back four for the last fifteen minutes on Sunday...which was about an hour too late for a tactical switch, but let's leave that aside for now...
     
    #272
  13. BrunelGunner

    BrunelGunner Well-Known Member
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    Oh yeah, Sarr did have a decent game, and I'm not trying to take that away from him. I just mean it was unfair to give him a first start in a game of this magnitude where he had to shoulder a lot of responsibility against a 3-man midfield performing at the top of their game right now. And like you say, to his credit, he didn't cower or shy away, but with Bentancur out, I was definitely expecting Bissouma to start. Bissouma's had plenty of masterclasses against us in the past, yet he seems to barely get any minutes for you guys. Everyone thought he would be one of the signings of the season. I still think he's a quality player; he just needs a different manager IMO. If Conte wanted to be more tactically flexible, he could have played a 3 man midfield of Sarr, Hojbjerg and Bissouma. Yet, for whatever reason, Conte doesn't like him.

    Sessegnon v Saka was always going to be a mismatch. Although in fairness, I thought Sessegnon did start the game brightly, then let himself down with two woeful crosses and then he reverted to type. I, too, was surprised to see Perisic and Davies on the bench.

    You're highlighting my point though. Conte takes subtle digs at his squad and talks about the need for time etc because he wants to improve on the players he's got. And whilst that is true to an extent, he still has decent options at his disposal and either doesn't want to utilise them because he doesn't rate them or because they don't fit his stubborn vision. The uncertainty over his future probably doesn't help, either.

    He needs to decide whether he's going to commit to Spurs or leave.
     
    #273
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  14. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    "My players are ****. Why are they playing badly after I said that in public?"
     
    #274
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  15. BrunelGunner

    BrunelGunner Well-Known Member
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    Have you changed your mind on him or do you still want him to stick out until the end of the season and part ways?
     
    #275
  16. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    I'm just bored of him making the same mistakes and chatting the same **** after it doesn't work.
    Replacing him right now would be incredibly difficult, though.
    I don't have a clue who we'd bring in.
     
    #276
  17. BrunelGunner

    BrunelGunner Well-Known Member
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    I've seen some links to a reunion with Pochettino (which had a mixed reception), Ruben Amorim, Thomas Frank and Luis Enrique. If you still wanted to go down the ex-Chelsea route, Thomas Tuchel is available <laugh>

    Do any of those names appeal?
     
    #277
  18. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Amorim would just be Conte Mk II, as far as I can see.
    Frank's doing a great job, but I think that's like Potter at Brighton.
    The club structure is what's doing a lot of the work and he's not got a lot of experience.
    Enrique would be a dramatic change. Not sure he'd take it.

    A return to Pochettino would be a big risk and I'd hate to see him wreck his legacy even more.
    Might be tough for him to get things going in the right direction.
     
    #278
  19. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    The hipster option of Marcelo Gallardo apparently wants to manage in Europe...

    In terms of Amorim, the fact that Sporting are currently sitting a distant fourth in a three-team league is hard to ignore

    Tuchel has a track record of cladhing with DoFs so that's an obvious powder keg waiting to happen

    Poch feels like a sideways step, given how PSG hardly played flowing football in spite of their personnel, and going back is always a risk - as Allegri is currently finding out
     
    #279
  20. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    I would have liked to see "the Waiter" as manager earlier.At least he would have had us playing football and not soccer!
     
    #280

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