I was a mate of Billy Steele when he was a PTI in the RAF , just before he played in the Lions tour of S. Africa where he encouraged the team to sing "Flower of Scotland" since adopted as the anthem of Scotland. Haven't been able to dine out on it but proud that Billy introduced the Scottish anthem to his country.
That was the 1974 tour I believe? I saw the Corries (who wrote it) do it live sometime in the early 70’s, 2 or 3 years before that. Cracking song. Always struck me as strange that when it’s played by a pipe band, there’s one note they can’t play, so they have to flatten it.
I have only quickly read O's post, but i do sort of agree - it sounds like he is quoting the American Dream. I'm all for "It's coming home" EDIT: Or "Don't Stop Me Now" by Queen. The Queen
Absolutely this, GSTK is the U.K. anthem no idea why we sing it for England. It’s absolute dirge for sporting events as well, we watch France and Argentina use their anthems as a platform to get pumped up for big games, meanwhile we trudge out our snails pace song about bootlicking and servitude. I’m not even particularly anti-Royalist, but it’s the pure embodiment of cringe. The second verse of Jerusalem is almost lyrically tailor made for hype too.
They are not all being driven at the same time anyway so the emissions aren’t really relevant. Assuming he does actually own all those cars (doubt) it is probably better that he has them rather than 33 different people Guy is clearly damaged in side since he needs to project so much. His Christmas “message” to men was particularly illuminating. He admitted he wouldn’t be mentally strong enough to live an average life. Making him weaker than (at a conservative estimate) at least 50% of the world’s population. He said he’d be depressed (but apparently doesn’t really believe in depression). It’s all rather strange edit: I’ve just looked and his original tweet was completely unprompted. Making it even weirder / more pathetic
Tate is extremely wealthy at this point, so he might well own them all. Which is horrifying, given that his sole contribution to humanity is telling incels to act even more sociopathic.
Sadly the message is seeping into wider culture. I heard some girls talking positively about him the other day. Horrifying.
In what sense? I expect not the point Schad reduced what he says to. Because like it or not if his message was as simple as “telling incels to be more sociopathic” then he wouldn’t be wealthy at all. His audience is far larger than that. It has to be. Indeed trying to boil things like this down the way Schad has is not really very helpful because it misses what is really going on * This is caveated (as it now must be) with “depending on what your definition of “incel” is”. Because there are at least three ways it is quite commonly used / potential definitions. If not more. And the whole “issue” in general is greatly muddied by them all being grouped together But it’s not a conversation many really want to have. Not least due to this grouping of multiple sub groups together and then focusing on the nastier aspects and deciding all are irredeemable. In this case I have no idea what Schad is picturing in his statement above. Such is the variety of ways the term can be applied (and misapplied)
You're vastly underestimating how many angry, disaffected young men who feel that women owe them something are out there. Tate is very, very clear about who he is and what he espouses. His audience is overwhelmingly men in their teens/early 20s. If they were repulsed by Tate's views, they would not follow him. They would not give him money. You don't follow Tate without being aware of his extreme misogyny and his defense of sexual assault and domestic violence and his bragging about grooming young women; he talks about those things frequently. You follow him because of those things.
And you are vastly overestimating it at the same time. Notably (I expect) how many are actually “incels”. Take Tate himself. Almost certainly not an incel. But to me it seems like he felt he deserved more women or “better women” or what not so moved to Romania where he could more easily control and manipulate them with money. (Along with looser laws on sex trafficking). I knew someone at uni who had no trouble at the clubs. He still moved to Romania himself where it was easier to flex with money on top of his appearance. I expect that is part of what Tate does But if we go with what you say and there really is a very large population as you describe - why does no one sensibly talk about it? Beyond grouping them all together and associating them with a handful of guys who have committed horrible crimes. (And it really is only a handful. Too many of course). If it is truly a problem on the scale you describe it is not being taken seriously or treated in any kind of sensible way Because all the current approach does is push it further underground and make these people even angrier. Do I have a solution? No. I’m not sure there even is one. My best guess would be to reduce the focus on relationships from popular media and present heroic / positive figures who are happily single and don’t need validation from romantic interests. And even then it would take time. Stop presenting romantic/sexual relationships as a mark of status/achievement. Or at least highlight that it doesn’t have to be. For all genders as well. So ditching crazy cat lady things as well. But there is still an element of biology that can’t be overcome
I am not talking about incels. I am talking about how people like Tate can have too much power over young people. The specific discussion was that feminists are wrong and men should be the boss in the house. And this was said with Tate specifically referenced. The reason I found this worrying is it was a group of girls from a background where it is already hard enough to convince them they deserve equal treatment to men…
Women already get equal treatment to men in the West in pretty much every way. Tate is hilarious and absolutely correct in a lot of what he says if you take the time to listen to him instead of judging based on headlines. (Although I also disagree with some of his more extreme views). He is very clever at getting a reaction out of people by winding people up. Notice how you are all talking about him? Trump level knowledge of the attention economy
Here are some of Tate's statements: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/08/21/andrew-tate-tiktok-instagram/ "If you put yourself in a position to be raped, you must bear some responsibility" 'He has claimed that he needs authority over the women he dates, saying, “You can’t be responsible for a dog if it doesn’t obey you.” He has said he would attack a woman who accused him of cheating and described himself as “absolutely a misogynist.”' Among videos that gained traction was one in which he advised his followers to “slap, slap, grab, choke” women in the bedroom and another in which he said he dates 18- and 19-year-olds because it’s easier to leave an “imprint” on them. https://www.theguardian.com/technol...violent-misogynistic-world-of-tiktok-new-star “I inflict, I expect, absolute loyalty from my woman,” he says. “I ain’t having my chicks talking to other dudes, liking other dudes. My chicks don’t go to the club without me, they are at home.” "if a woman is going out with a man, she belongs to that man" His whole shtick is being violently misogynistic.
People talk about it quite a bit, and have taken it seriously for quite a long time? Here are several years worth of articles on the radicalization of young men in these spaces: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-rage-of-the-incels https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/09/world/americas/incels-toronto-attack.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tle-known-ideology-behind-the-toronto-attack/ https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...l-far-right-ecosystem-of-angry-young-men.html https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/4/16/18287446/incel-definition-reddit https://www.technologyreview.com/20...ting-more-toxic-as-angry-men-join-the-incels/ As all of the above note, at its heart it isn't about getting sex, it's about a vision of male supremacy and absolute authority over women. And responding violently when they do not submit. All of which is what Tate openly espouses.
There was a comment on this thread about two months ago about politics in US and contrasting it with the UK. Picking up on posts like this, I think it is demonstrative just how different we are from the Americans. Do people in the UK really listen to idiots like Tate? I find Schad's posts on politics to be coming from a markedly different perspective from many others on here. I would have to own up that I have never heard of Andrew Tate but state that he seems typical of the kinds of morons who have been given a voice since the advent of social media when, in the recent past, they would have been ridiculed and had no voice at all. I do find it depressing that some media outlines seem to let the likes of Elon Musk, Jeremy Clarkson, Piers Morgan, etc are allowed to set the agenda with particular topics. I am confused that these kinds of people get so much traction when they spout complete nonsense. People like Tate clearly have not earned the right to hold such platforms when they are so morally bankrupt. I always think the UK is bad until Schad posts something which reveals that things are far more ridiculous in the US. It seems to me that any opinion, no matter how ridiculous, is seen as being valid. People no longer seem capable of questioning the absurd.
For what it's worth, Tate was raised in the UK, got his big break on Big Brother in the UK, and gained an audience in part via palling around with extremist figures in the UK (mostly BNP sorts). So it's definitely a problem with a much wider scope than just North America.
Like I mentioned, the very fact that people on here are talking about this mean he has won, and his tweet had the desired effect. Tate isn’t an idiot and he genuinely does have some good messages in amongst the headline grabbing antics. The main thing he encourages is extreme self-responsibility & accountability. One of the reasons he has become so popular is because these conservative messages resonate with young men who are being told things like men can get pregnant & all white men are evil. There is a huge gap for positive male role models and he has just filled the void. As the mainstream conversation has moved to the extreme left the last few years, it feels like Tate is the natural response. It’s just the pendulum swinging back the other way.
