I thought it was just me. I turned down an invite to a friend's Chrimbo do because I thought there was a game - I checked and saw it was Thursday and thought I'd been imagining it was tomorrow.
Much as I agree with you, the bolded bit is a two way street. I'm putting myself in the position of being Muslim and saying those exact words to the Western world. I'm not in any way saying I agree with all Muslim practices but what else can you do but accept that they find drinking alcohol and same sex relationships sinful (I don't know I'm using the right word here, it's just how I've had it explained to me) and abhorrent to them. Do our values trump theirs?
Where do you draw the line, though? Do we really turn a blind eye to a society where women are treated as chattels and imprisoned or beaten for protesting against it? If it were the practise to kill "imperfect" children would we excuse it in the same way? Like I said, we can't impose our standards on others, but neither should we be expected to accept them without comment. It's one of the many ways human society still has a long way to go before we can see an end to conflict. And it's not about Islamic Law per se, but its interpretation, different Muslim societies go to different lengths in adhering to its teachings. Some are more progressive. Btw, I feel the same way about fundamentalist, Bible-Literalist Christians. The US is riddled with those who want to turn the country into a theocracy - heaven help us if they succeed. They seek to prevent the teaching in schools of cosmology and evolution and anything else that conflicts with their view. The internet is exporting their extremism to the rest of the English-speaking world as well. I know you're religious JB, and I'm not attacking it in principle, just pointing to the madness of adhering to an ancient code of morality in a world that has moved on. Oh, and for making me post something else...
I know neither of us want to carry this on any further. It's not like we're on opposite sides. We broadly agree on the whole subject. I agree 100% with your comments on Fundamenralist Christians, they and their ideas are dangerous. Catholicism is a million miles away from literally everything I've ever seen or read about bible Christians, (other than we share the same God,).In fact most other Christians have a very dim view of the Catholic Church. The bolded bit though, that's exactly what's currently happening. Some governors in the US are pushing for legislation to protect a mother's 'right' to let her own child die after it's been born, regardless of it's physical condition, based on her 'right' to change her mind on whether she wants to be a mother and raise a child. Activists who agree that a woman has the right to kill/let.die her own child if she wants to, post birth, have burnt down churches and fire bombed health centres and are being backed in Congress, in the media and amongst a sizeable portion of the American population. It isn't just about abortion any more, it's taken the next sinister step. Anyway, like you I'm done now too.
I didn't realise how much that was true until I came over here. Baptists and the fundamentalist churches believe Catholicism isn't Christianity and that it is a polytheistic religion (because of prayers directed at Saints and Mary, etc). I was quite surprised to learn they were so anti Catholic. (It really is just the fundamentalists though who are like that... And as much press as they get, theyre not as large a group as they were 20 years ago).
For me, it's when there is a victim. No public shows of affection: Ok, that's just a cultural issue, no crime there. No alcohol: Same thing. No one is really being victimized by not being able to booze. Cultural modesty laws in general, I don't think we have any right to criticize or complain about. Now, women being treated like property and sub humans. That I have a problem with because there is a victim. Same with extreme punishment for gays. It's one thing to say "no overt homosexual behaviour in public" or even things like banning rainbow flags at world cup, that could be seen as merely cultural. Totally different animal to torture them for doing it in their own homes.
Yeh, it's magnified in the US because of the hold the fundamentalists have but my own experience has been that other Christians of all denominations don't understand Catholicism. There are always questions about Saints and Mary and infant baptism etc. that seem to somehow shock observers. Those things aside, basically it's about obeying the ten commandments and you'll be living a good life.
I once had a brief online debate with an evangelical Christian from the States. He was adamant that Catholicism wasn't Christianity. I pointed out that Catholicism was the torch-bearer of Christianity for about 1500 years before his version was even thought of but I got the written version of a blank look. It was as though the idea didn't even register in his head. He'd been home-schooled in a Fundie household and had obviously learned nothing of history beyond their version. It's quite disturbing. I'm surprised that you say they're on the wane - the things that I've read and seen suggest the opposite. I believe there are strong moves to have secular sciences taught only as hypotheses and have even heard of moves to have teachers censured for teaching things against a student's religion - provided that religion is fundamentalist Christianity of course, no such discretion for Muslims, Hindus or whatever.
I might also add that fundamentalist religion is behind the flat-Earth movement - the single most ridiculous delusion to blight the modern era.
Religion in general is on the wane here. There are still a lot of very religious people of which fundamentals make up a chunk. But I'd say most people I know now are not very religious. Wasn't that way when I moved here. Now, this is a personal observation not a scientific study, but I've noticed a huge shift in the last decade... Used to be one of the first questions anyone asked was "what church do you go to?" And the follow up would be "why don't you come visit ours, you'll like it?" I don't even remember the last time someone asked me what church I go to... Even more surprising than that though is the number of times someone says "you're not religious are you? No, me neither..." And then tells me something that the fundamentalists wouldn't be amused by. That never used to happen twenty years ago unless I knew someone really well.
I honestly don't know. None of the stuff I've seen on it has been particularly religious in nature, but I've not paid it much attention. I personally cant think of anyone who has outed themselves as a flat earther in person though... Only online.
FYI, just did a Google: according to Pew Research:. 30% of people in the US say they don't have a religion. It was under 10% 30 years ago and is on track that over 50% of people will say they have no religion by 2070 if current trends maintain. I think Britain just this year became majority having no religion for first time... So Britain is 20 percentage points above US for non-religious people. It's probably now about where Britain was in the 1990s. (Only a larger percentage of our religious folk are fundamentalists).
How do you know the earth isn’t flat With a teleporter at the end that takes you instantly to the other side
I've only ever known one flat-Earther in real life, and it was definitely because of her religious upbringing. It's quite easy to see online. They've convinced themselves that the Bible says the Earth is flat and so it must be. Don't have any truck with all that evidence stuff... I do know several Bible literalists, but they're mostly harmless tbh. I think.
It's absolutely not a transporter cos that clearly disintegrates people and robs their souls and the abomination that appears on the other side of the world is a demon in possession of the unholy assembled freak that emerges. This is why American tourists are awful.
Conversely it was a Catholic priest, Diogo Ribeiro Padron Real in 1527 who produced the first modern scientific map. Catholics developed the theory of evolution (Lamarck), the science of genetics (Mendel) and the Big Bang Theory (Lemaître).
