I'm on Twitter but have muted a lot of the keyboard warriors, they are fishing for likes and followers more than their love of the team , I follow spurs fans on there and often disagree with their take on the team but at the same time can see what they get at . A lot of these so called Spurs fans have never been to a game and I doubt if they could find Tottenham on a map in fact I doubt the could place both hands on their arse
That's a fair point DH, I am as guilty as the next man, but it doesn't make me right does it! I was fed up with the Portuguese football style, which I have a particular dislike for. I also joined in the calls for Harry Redknapp to go because I was fed up with his chat to the press, and I was wrong there too. What might have been if we had persisted with Harry? Who knows, but we do know that he is someone with a huge knowledge of the game and a very good eye for a player. Maybe I have learnt a lesson that keep changing good managers is not the answer. Consistency is far better. Pochettino did well because the cards fell right for him and he managed to stay for what 5? years. In the end the dissapointment of the CL final did for him, but again what if we had stayed with him through the bad period? Who knows. Criticism of players and refs is what fans do, I disliked Bent from the moment he joined but again it doesen't really help that I kept going on about it. As you once pointed out this is a forum for debate and that's what we are doing but in the long term does it help?
I see him doing the best with the turds he has available different managers same turds having same brain farts our squad depth isn’t full of quality regardless of what formation we play someone like Sanchez is still going to tackle thin air whilst the ball whistles past him for their player to score That’s what Sanchez does maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow…but one day soon he will do it again so even if we are attacking like mad…the one break the oppo have…someone like Sanchez is still going to piss his pants and cost us. our football isnt great over the 90 but it’s pretty great when we got the bit between our teeth. I dont believe Conte tells them to play within themselves to the extent where they invite pressure continuously. I think it’s the players mentality…Conte doesn’t trust them enough to ask them to be able to absorb pressure like prime Italy so I doubt he’s asking them to play that way. Some people call it ‘preserving energy’ that’s why we play 2 different games…I see it more a case of they get a boot up their collective arses at HT and that reboots their thinking…seems like most can only think in 45 minute blocks. No way do they come back from 2 down yesterday if it’s away to one of the big boys. So over the 90 they can win due to quality over the opposition but when you throw in mentality and time to fight then their Away record to the top 6 speaks for itself…mentality. We lost to Toon because I believe they turned up with an aura suggesting that they are the next big thing in the league and the core of our players **** it because that’s what they do. There’s some usual suspects that have survived too many managers. We need someone serious about an overhaul not dragging my feet short arms long pockets Levy and his ways tbh but as usual thats a different story for a different thread
No one is denying Conte’s knowledge or reputation, it’s a given that professionals in football know more than those outside of it but it doesn’t mean they can’t be criticised or called out for what are perceived to be poor decisions. Ultimately Conte (or any footballing professional) wouldn’t be in a job if there were no fans in football. We’re the paying customer and paying customers have a right to voice their opinions on matters, Spurs fans especially considering we pay more than any other fan in world football. I could go to a fine dining restaurant and criticise a meal I had for not enjoying it, doesn’t mean I know more about food than the chef who cooked it. Right now I’m not enjoying watching Spurs and I’ve seen this pattern of play with multiple managers. Scraping fortunate wins and convincingly losing games is never something to be happy about and before long the convincing losses will likely overpower the scraped wins. It did under Poch, Jose and Nuno and I personally feel it’s what’s happening now with Conte, despite having a considerably improved squad. I also think he’s not helping himself with certain decisions, I know you’ve defended the likes of Sanchez, Emerson and Sessegnon in a few posts above by saying they’ve had good games but we require these players to have many good games. This was a similar argument for Winks, he had blinders against teams like Barcelona and Man City and fans would cling to those whilst overlooking the tens of bad games. We need players who give good performances most weeks and yet Conte continues to give chances to some players despite just about everyone knowing there’s a higher chance they’ll be poorer than they would be good, all while there are others not getting a look-in. It’s fair to say we don’t know if Spence will be amazing but give the guy a chance, can he truly be any worse than Emerson or Doherty? I don’t personally believe so but what I do know is the two current options in that position definitely aren’t good enough. Likewise with Sanchez, why not play Tanganga more? Tanganga’s rarely let us down, nowhere near of a head case. I also never agreed with the decision to loan out Reguilon over Sessegnon, the Spaniard isn’t perfect but he put in a damn site more strong performances than what we’ve seen of Sessegnon. In terms of actual debate, voicing displeasure on forums likes this is likely better than doing so on huge social media sites in which posts can reach millions within seconds and minutes. We’re a relatively small forum by the grand scheme of things in social media, we almost certainly won’t influence the outside world or wider social media community with what we post here - good or bad. I think everyone’s welcome to post their points even if I strongly agree or disagree, ultimately it won’t really impact things on the outside.
To take your points about players like Spence and Gil, there is another factor. That is that Conte has to protect his young players because they are the future. He has consistently said that Bissouma was not ready and now he is starting to introduce him. He says the same about Spence and has just started to give him a few minutes to get a feel. In many sports you have to protect young players at the beginnings of their careers becaue get it wrong and their confidence will be shattered. Let's just try to imagine stepping out to play your game in front of 60,000 fans. These are not classical concert goers who will sit quietly and clap at the end. These are fanatics who will shout and make their feelings felt. You miss a chance or a pass and 60,000 ooohs! greet you. Sessegnon is still a young player who looks to many of us to have great promise, but others think the opposite. Sessegnon has to play through this and try to put the critics behind him and play. Not easy and for some impossible. Conte knows all of this first hand because he too was a player and as he himself has said not a natural talent he needed help to get where he got. We as fans can't wait to see new players because we feel thay can transform our team into the team we dream about seeing. A team who play silky football. Its always fanatstic when you see 4 or 5 one touch passes as the team moves towards the opponents box. We had such a moment yesterday, I can remember moments like that from the 1980's. Perryman to Hoddle to Ardilles to Taylor to Jones, fantastic. We have just seen Bryan Gil make a little mark and excite the fans but how close he is to a 90 minute performance I will happily leave to Conte. You are right about the fine dining and criticising but if you do that during the meal you risk whatever they decide to do in the kitchen with your food. Ugh! So in football, if we citricise during the game that is not going to help the team to produce their best. Supporters is a better word than fanatics (fans) and support is better to give to your team than abuse. And I know you would not do that at the game and for some of us (too far away) the matchday thread is the equivalant of being at the game. We have all been to a game and right behind us is the bloke who moans about the players who moans about the ref all through the game driving you nuts. I have even experienced that in Cyprus watching Apoel with a bloke moaning in Greek all through the game and it didn;t help that I didn't understand a lot of it.
I was referring to how, as soon as ExLax Musk took over (because it's easier to pay $44bn to buy something you never wanted to but than $1bn and admit you were seeking attention from your fanboys...) that there was an absurd uptick in people using racial slurs like it was 4chan
I don’t think he’s protecting those players though. Spence is the same age as Sessegnon and only about 14 months younger than Emerson. He was in the Championship team of the year last season and put in stellar performances against Premier League sides in the FA Cup. I don’t see him as being protected but instead he’s being halted in his development due to a stubborn manager persisting with a player that’s quite frankly one of the worst Spurs fans have seen in recent years. Players don’t develop sitting on the bench. Similar for Gil, he’s played numerous games in La Liga and played for the Spain national team, he doesn’t need protecting, he just needs games. He’s showing in these rare cameos he’s good enough to play more but Conte gives the most awful excuses of him not being strong enough, as if strength is the only aspect needed to succeed. We would never have enjoyed players like Modric, Lennon and Defoe if strength was the be all and end all. I think with Sessegnon, very similar to Winks, people want to believe in his potential rather than truly see a top player in there. I see a player who lacks any real quality attributes to become a huge success as well as mentally being far too timid and lacking good decision making. He’s played a fair amount of games now and for me personally we should be seeing signs of quality, can you truly state with conviction things that Sessegnon does that make you think “he’ll be a star”?. Rightly or wrongly I compare players to the benchmarks set by some of the best and at LB/ LWB, Ekotto and Rose set those benchmarks for Spurs players and Sessegnon falls far, far below those standards to the point I don’t ever think he’ll reach them, which is a shame, because as a person I think he’s great. In terms of games, those at the games generally stand by the team, you’ll get a few idiots, everyone does but the large majority of fans at games will chant and support the team even when going behind, it’s only when the team start playing truly awful and concede multiple goals that fans then lose patience, that was the case recently against Newcastle. The boos at HT weren’t as bad as what Nuno got in the Man Utd game but they were bad enough to let the manager and players know this isn’t acceptable. I’m not a fan of booing and don’t do it but at the same time it’s one of the few ways to voice displeasure at games.
I think Conte (rightly IMO) views the PL as a very different animal to the other leagues you mention. I am impatient to see Spence start and Gil, but we have a manager who is there to make these decisions so whether I like it or not, he will. Meantime I will watch football because I enjoy it and yes that means because I am following Spurs there will be dissapointment but it also means that when we do suceed it will be all the more delicious. Conte has already done a lot to improve things in his relativley short time with Spurs and it's way too early IMO to be full on complaining. We already see the Italian way, defend stoutly but when we do attack it is full on excitement. I will wait for that to come to the full and hope Conti gets the chance to do it, because if he does we will won something.
I certainly hope Conte can produce something special but what I’m seeing from him this season is a regression from last, despite having more and better players to choose from. If he deems players like Spence, Tanganga and Gil not ready but Emerson, Sanchez and Sessegnon are, then I have serious concerns about his current state of judgement. I don’t know for sure if Spence and Gil can become great players for Spurs but I feel I can say with confidence the other three won’t and yet they continue to get chances whilst others don’t. We’ve all heard the definition of insanity, can’t help feeling his persistence with some players are just that. I enjoy football too but at the moment I don’t enjoy watching Spurs and Conte is proving to be a large reason for that with some of his decisions and style of play. Similar to what you and I have said about Southgate in recent years with England - Spurs are doing well (so far) despite Conte, not because of him.
There are always better players out there and if we keep Conti we will attract them and that's a major reason to try to keep him. Mourinho was an important stepping stone for Spurs and Conti is another. It tells the world of football that Spurs are a team to look out for and for players it says that's a place for me. I don't think we would be 3rd without him and this still early days in this season. Also don't forget we are without two of the most exciting players in the squad Kulusevski amd Richarlison and have a tired Kane so things will get better, but who knows what will happen this season with a World Cup in the middle of it. Yep Southgate is crap. We might get him if Conte leaves...............think about that. I'll stick with Conti and the good times will come
I am in very much with DH on this, whilst I want Conte to succeed and I don’t think that he should be sacked I do want other players to be a given a chance rather than persisting with players who aren’t out of form, they are not good enough. Emerson is the worst RB in recent memory (even Naughton was better), and the same goes for Sess on the left, and as for Sanchez yesterday was the final straw for me that’s criminally bad defending and it’s not an isolated case. I want Spence to play from now until the WC, he can’t be worse than Emerson or Doherty, but if he is looking ‘not ready’ after those games then we have January to source a Hakimi or Dumfries! On the left we will need to rotate Sess and Persisic until Jan then see if we can negotiate for Destiny to come back early maybe with Sess going the other way. Tanganga must be given the Sanchez games from now on if only to gauge whether he is good enough to be a reserve CB for the foreseeable future. I also want to see more of Gil, he may not be ready to start week in week out yet, but he has shown an ability to come off the bench and actually influence a game twice in recent weeks, and that in its self can be invaluable, its probably more times than Lucas has had an impact from the bench in his Spurs career some players just can’t do it, if Gil can he needs to be given the chances.
Kulusevski is a major loss, Richarlison not so much when he’s played on the right - Gil is better there. But we do miss Richarlison as ideally we could’ve benched Son (or Kane) for some games whilst he’s been out. Hopefully both return soon, Kulusevski done some training after the game yesterday and Conte said Richarlison told him he he’ll be fit for Marseille, which will be huge if so. It’s hard to say if we’d be 3rd now or higher or lower without Conte. Many of us predicted this season that with the signings we made and the squad we were building - despite some still glaringly obvious weaknesses - that we’d be looking to finish around 3rd. So I’d say Conte’s doing par for the course at the moment with position but if we continue playing like we are I see us dropping quickly, we needed a 92nd minute winner to beat Bournemouth having previously lost two on the bounce in the league. We need to improve, a better team would’ve buried yesterday. Thankfully I don’t think there’s any danger of Southgate ever becoming Spurs manager, I think fans would go all “Gattuso” when seeing any links to him.
Then by definition Conte has let his 'turd polishing' levels slip below that demonstrated in the final third of last season.
Players make mistakes. Defender's mistakes are more likely to lead to goals. It is so easy to look back and criticize a player's defending. Watch all the goals back on MOTD and most can be prevented if the defender would have done this or that. A couple of weeks back, when 'Pool played £ity, pundits were praising Gomez and how he had to be in the England team. And then yesterday a howler. They are not robots. Fatigue is also in the head as well as the legs. Last week Dier should have gone back onto the line ( as Silva? did yesterday ), but maybe he wasn't thinking quickly enough because of tiredness.. Spurs didn't concede for 400 hours earlier in the season with Sanchez playing. Until I see Spence perform, I will not say he is better than Emerson or Doherty. I trust Conte in his decisions. Fans are so fickle ( not just Spurs fans ). As Spurf said: We are 3rd in the table !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do fans want? Never to drop points? Never to concede? To play enjoyable football and lose or play boring football and succeed. ( I say succeed , and not win because I am aware we don't even necessarily win with boring football BUT WE ARE 3rd !! ( Behind City who are £££££££££ and Woolwich who will drop off.) Yes , I also get frustrated watching but at the end of the day when analyzing , I appreciate the situation.
Passmap time please log in to view this image Once again we find ourselves needing maps for the first 45 and the second, not just because the change in both shape and personnel but also in approach. At the very least I'd like to see Bentancur's map for the second half, and Dier's could make for interesting viewing too What definitely stands out is that Harry Kane has started dropping deeper than Son instead of playing as an out-and-out forward and the difference is especially noticeable, as Son is receiving the ball through the centre again instead of the onus being put on the WBs and only the WBs - although since the LWB is actually passing the ball to him, a strange concept I know, that is less of an issue than it has been in some games Another thing worth noting is the thick lines from Lenglet to anybody within 15-20 yards of him, as he's not only a nightmare for any cheap inkjet printer with the routine passing to Sanchez and Davies but is also finding both Bissouma and Hojbjerg with his passing from the back, when usually the passing from the CCB seems to be to just one CM. As a result the passing combinations are on full display on the left, with Lenglet/Davis/Hojbjerg and Davies/Hojbjerg/Sessegnon getting the ball moving between them - which was a useful weapon in the second half as, when we sped up the ball's movement, those same combinations became far more efficient at playing around Bournemouth On the other hand this is not the first map lately where Skippy is playing as a RW, as the same was true against Newcastle, which makes it clear that him doing so is a tactical choice - and that choice sits about as right as the number of crossfield passes back from Emerson to Lenglet Another reason why I wish that first 45 and second 45 maps were available is because I very much doubt Bournemouths looked like this in the two halves please log in to view this image While the evidence of the Billing/Zemura partnership is reflected in our map in how Emerson is actually dropping backwards to receive the ball, I very much doubt their midfield and front line looked like that over 90 minutes, mainly because that implies they either forgot to line up with a midfield, or Jefferson Lerma needs to be tested for cocaine due to going completely bonkers during the match that he decided he was the CF now
