Its a shame its not as clear as on the night, but im sure we can all agree that this is a pretty clear handball decision and a subsequent penalty. Shame cos that would have settled plenty of nerves.
Yeah, it clearly bounces down off his head to his arm and out for a corner. So there is no way around it!
Which therefore explains why no penalty was given - there was no deliberate handball. Do you think that the action met any of these definitions of the word 'deliberate'? ....arrived at after due thought ; secret as to escape observation; sneaky; trickily secret; given to or marked by deliberate concealment or misrepresentation of the truth; deceitful; dishonest; mendacious; untruthful; carefully thought out or planned; a calculated effort; a chance of failure - the probability of which is estimated before some action is undertaken; a deliberate misrepresentation of facts; characterised by awareness of the consequences; deliberate falsehood; done by design or intention; done or brought about of one's own will; implies full consciousness of the nature of one's act and its consequences; advised; aforethought; considered; designed; premeditated; prepense; studied; studious; thought-out; intentional,; unforced; unprescribed; wilful; willing; witting; intended; meant; meditated; purposed; determined; purposeful; aware; cognisant; conscious. Doesn't look it to me - the ref got it right IMO.
But the referee has to consider 3 things, Is the arm in a natural position? Does the player have a chance to move his arm? Was it intentional? In this case the arm is in an unnatural position, the player can move his arm to avoid the contact and the player gained an advantage which in understand can be interpreted as deliberate. If a player spreads his arms to make his body bigger and it hits him then it is given. IMO the law needs to be clarified so that any time the ball hits a hand or arm which is not in a natural position, or protecting the face or tender regions, and the player gains an obvious advantage the ref has to give a free-kick or penalty.
Well, Point 1 - for someone attempting to jump up to contest a high ball, his arm most certainly was in a natural position. Watch other players as they do it or try it yourself - raising an arm is a natural movement to help either lift or balance, or an aid to bracing against impending impact - nothing to do with spreading the body to make it bigger. Point 2 The speed at which it happened, and the distance from the ball, virtually made it impossible for him to move his arm - doubly so considering that the ball deviated off his head onto his arm. I'd go as far as to say that, had he been in a position to make a concious attempt to move his arm away, his action would have been misconstrued and a penalty may well have been given! Point 3 - ".....the law needs to be clarified......." - have to disagree there - the law is fairly clear already IMO and, in this instance, the ref applied the letter of it. What may actually help is managers and players alike improving their understanding of it, rather than simply bellowing 'handball/penalty' at the ref at the merest suspicion.
He was not trying to jump and challenge for the ball, he was on the floor trying to block it or head it clear. I understand that you have to gain leverage if you are challenging in the air, but you cannot climb on the players back. It happens at a reasonable pace for him to move imo.
Make up your mind - was he on the floor or climbing a player's back? We must be arguing about differing incidents. The one I'm talking about had the defender and Iwelumo almost facing each other at the edge of the six yard box, contesting a high ball which Iwelumo won whilst back-pedalling. He headed the ball down onto the defender's head as he was falling forward after jumping, from where it went onto his arm. There was absolutely nothing he could do about it.
We are talking about the same thing. If you see the picture i posted earlier it shows the distance between the players and how the player can move his hand. I am not saying he was climbing, i simply said that you have to gain leverage with reference to your previous post
I did look at the picture earlier and all I can see is a player falling forwards as he comes down from contesting a ball, trying to maintain his balance whilst the ball is headed onto him. What the still picture doesn't show is that Iwelumo was back-pedalling from the player as he headed the ball onto him, so obviously there would be space between them. The fact that there was space there in which he could move his hand didn't mean that he did purposely do that - and I guess that was the referee's opinion too. Even at first viewing, my thought was why is Iwelumo appealing - he headed the ball onto the guy and there was nothing he could do about it. The thought even crossed my mind that perhaps Iwelumo did it on purpose hoping for a penalty - an act that would be even harder to assess as deliberate. Have to admit though - I'm not sure why I'm arguing in Brighton's favour!
Im with Al. Agree to disagree BB?? This is the joy of football, we all see things differently and interpret them in different ways.
Must admit Dan having had a pen against the Posh , you know we have to wait another 9 months for the next one!!
