Ok this list is by no means all inclusive, there are bound to be plenty that I have missed, but I think the following is mostly a fair representation of those players currently still playing that made an appearance in the Premier League whilst aged 20 or under. For those currently aged 20 or under then they only have 2 full seasons and the present season, so is not a straight forward comparison of those who have a full 3 seasons worth of data. Liam Cooper, Chris Wood and Kevin De Bruyne are included not so much as being representative, but more just for my own amusement Average number of Premier League appearances whilst aged 18-20 = 23 games Average number of appearances outside of Premier League whilst aged 18-20 = 20 Average number of appearances in 1st team football whilst aged under 18 = 6 Without drawing any conclusions, just some interesting results from the data Tyrick Mitchell of Crystal Palace had a total of 2 games of 90 minutes before turning 21. Since then he has played 61 times in the Premier League in the last 3 seasons. Harvey Barnes completed 2 more games than Gelhardt whilst under 21, however Barnes also played 59 more first teams games outside of the EPL. Sessesgnon of Spurs played over 65 competitive 1st teams games before he was 18 (all outside of the EPL) Lewis Cook of Bournemouth played over 30 games before he was 18 together with a further 40 games between ages 18-20, ( I wonder who that was for ) before playing in the Premier League. Eddie Nketiah had played less competitive 1st team league games by the time he turned 21, than Gelhardt. Dwight McNeil has played the most EPL games whilst aged under 21. Whilst Rice, Saka, Alexander-Arnold are no surprises, Ben Davies of Spurs is the 5th highest for EPL appearances aged under 21 (within the list below of course)
Aski Moral to the story is: Yes there are some great kids who play top level football from an early age but in the main the majority of top kids who are going to break through come of age from 20-22. So Joffy and Co could still be huge players and we need to be patient
I will admit that's the one flaw with the list I produced, in that it doesn't show the failures and I can imagine that a lot of those will have a similar record to those towards the lower end of the list. That is also a task that no matter how much I like stats is one that I'm not prepared to take Personal opinion is that Gelhardt has probably been held back a year in his development due to us not sending him out on loan in the first year of us being back in the Premier League. Whilst there are exceptions where players just slot in straight away, the majority learn their trade in the lower League. Ideally he needs to get 20 games under his belt this season to be in the top half of that list. To say he isn't good enough or not going to make it is hard to judge because of the club's previous philosophy of keeping players in the U23s as opposed to gaining first team experience at a lower league
Also a year lost because the U23s were used as subs for the first team due to injuries. A season where the top kids didn't play football, except Drameh
Joffy made 20 + appearances last season Doc which I'm sure you well know. The thing that held him back were his injuries, without which he'd easily have played double or triple the minutes he actually managed to be fit enough to play. It's also probably fair to say that Joffy, Sam Greenwood and Summerville all made massive strides during their first season in the U23's under Marcelo's tutelage and as they're all now well established in the 1st team squad it does seems a little churlish to question or criticize their development. Plenty of other U23's though were just bench warmers last season and the fact that most have now moved on to pastures new speaks for itself really. Academy successes since Orta took over are; Meslier Struijk Joffy Greenwood Summerville Hjelde The criteria being that they were all signed by Orta and are now fully first team integrated. Ps; There's also a couple more in the pipeline so watch this space
It looks to me as though we bought all those players you list above. I wonder why we aren't producing players through our own youth development? Is it possible that as an EPL team, if we establish ourselves for a little longer, we could start to attract this young talent? and therefore have a better chance of finding the rough diamond as buying semi-developed talent from other clubs could potentially lead to the recruitment of players that these other clubs just don't think will make the grade, not is all cases I admit.
Cellino pretty much disbanded the youth setup completely. It might take a few more seasons for the local youths to come through our system. That's why Orta had to buy in bulk the first season, we just had no youth teams. Hopefully Archie Gray will be the first of many.
You have a lot to answer for LoL, because of course as soon as you mention that, even though I say I won't look at it, I now find myself at the pc compiling data (see told you I'm sad ) Anyways decided to have a look at the Championship, to identify players who made an appearance in the Premier League, prior to the age of 21, that would be considered not to have broken through. Again I won't say that everyone has been included (I'm bound to have missed some), and I only considered players aged 25 or over (mainly to keep it manageable), nor did I included Burnley or Watford, given that they had a prolonged period in the EPL. Again with out any conclusions, just interesting points to note. If we included Gelhardt's stats in the list, he would near the top of the list. Grant Hanley with 26 EPL games prior to the age of 20 is the most prominent that would be deemed not to have made it as a Premier league player. Martin Kelly is probably the most successful, as he made the most Premier League appearances after turning 21. Nick Powell, who didnt even manage to play 90 minutes for the Scum, is still only 28, just seemed like years since they bought him from Crewe. Patrick Roberts who was suppose to be the next big thing to come out of Man City, managed a total of 70 minutes football in the Premier League 19 of the 31 players listed failed to play more than 10 games in the EPL
Jammy you make it sound like Joffy played 20 full games last season but we both know thats not true. Joffy appeared off the bench for most of them so hardly played football last season. He hasnt completed a full game this season but did get a start in the cup and completed 75 minutes. My criticism of ghe club last season is about a wasted year for the 23s who ended up being relegated because of first team problems. My view is that he didnt get the game time he should have
Morning all. I saw a "beautiful football" goal from Sunderland posted. It was a great finish by...... Jack Clark. I'll try and get the link
https://fb.watch/fDOxAE_gFQ/ I checked and the boy is doing great. He's started all their games and has 3 goals and 4 assists. Maybe £10m was too cheap
Well spotted wakey. Just goes to show that the chancer that is Victor Orta should be ran out of town for being a wage thief
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one Doc. Joffy played when fit enough to play and both Jesse and Bielsa used him from the bench as much as they could given both his levels of fitness and having to manage games as they unfolded. That's just the inevitable consequence of not being fit enough to start I'm afraid.
