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Match Day Thread Birmingham v Norwich

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by SuffolkCanary, Aug 29, 2022.

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What will the result be?

  1. Norwich Win

    6 vote(s)
    75.0%
  2. Draw

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  3. Birmingham Win

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Reading

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  1. zogean_king

    zogean_king Well-Known Member

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    #81
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  2. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    I also think he helps with Nunez as they both speak Spanish, which is very similar to Portuguese which must help Sara too .
     
    #82
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  3. Golden Eadie 2

    Golden Eadie 2 Well-Known Member

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    Just assessing what I witnessed in the match. And the throw in situation is universal, not just us.
     
    #83
  4. Canary Spring

    Canary Spring Well-Known Member

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    I agree with what you said, GE. It worries me, too, when we pass the ball through our own penalty area. We've seen how bad that can end up.
    On our throw-ins, I keep yelling " somebody move." We don't break into space. There should be set plays designed for throw-ins. (Safe ones of course)
     
    #84
  5. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    Tactical analysis from MFW: https://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/2022/08/31/tactical-analysis-birmingham-1-city-2/

    I think it's fair to criticise the lack of width on the left side, and perhaps given Smith was forced to play Byram at LB, maybe Ramsey was the wrong LW choice (but I can see why you'd want to encourage a player who got a game-winning assist last time out). But equally there weren't many other options, and I think Onel is so much more effective off the bench against a tired full back.

    I think it's a positive. If we all thought this was the best that this squad could achieve then I'd be much more worried. There's clearly room for improvement and hopefully that helps take us up a notch to where we can beat teams more comfortably.
     
    #85
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  6. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    You woudn't really expect us to look capable at this stage, would you Rick? This current transfer window is the first opportunity DS has had to bring in the players he wants. And of the three that club finances have allowed him (leaving aside Ramsay, who is unlikely to join us permanently), we're yet to see two fully up and running, including, most pertinently, Hayden.
     
    #86
  7. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    Withdrawal symptoms due to severe addiction to Farke? ;)
     
    #87
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  8. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    If Smith gets 100 points this season then he's done better than Farke .

    Farke's first title win was with a much cheaper squad than his second .

    Smith inherited the most expensive squad in our history, they may not be his type of players but at this level we have one of the best squads .

    Screenshot_20220831-190207_Chrome.jpg


    Hanley has been our best player so far again and Dean clearly agrees
     
    #88
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  9. GozoCanary

    GozoCanary Well-Known Member

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    #89
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  10. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I accept that we're still waiting for Hayden an Sara and I'm very pleased with Núñez, who already looks like a PL player for the same money we got from PLM leaving - what a change that is. My concern is that the PL players from last season don't look like PL players in the Championship. The exceptions are Sargent, Aarons, Omobamidele and Hanley. If anything, the players coming back from loans have looked to be up for it. I hope it changes soon and we all feel more positive about it all.
     
    #90

  11. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    To be fair, who is a PL player from last season who hasn't stepped up? Half the problem was a lack of Prem quality players. Those who might have been considered Prem level last season:
    Pukki - making an impact from the bench, hard ot judge yet.
    Aarons - still looks like our best defender.
    Are there any other players from last season who looked Premier League quality?

    If you extend it to our summer signings from last summer:

    Rashica I'll give you, not matching his apparent pedigree so far.
    Gibson (and Giannoulis) you can argue whether they were Championship or Prem signings, but clearly Gibson isn't at the standard he has previously set.
    Tzolis out on loan so can't judge his Championship performances. Scored his first Eredivisie goal this evening.
    Gunn has looked good when played, strong argument he should be first choice already.
    PLM, Kabak, Normann, Williams, Gilmour have all left.

    If anything, it shows how despite it looking like we splashed the cash last summer, the squad doesn't have that much to show for it. Rashica, Sargent and Tzolis really the only significant signings.
     
    #91
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  12. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    The oft derided Sargent, now repaying DS's trust, is the one big plus from last summer. That apart, we are still currently reliant on a core of players who have already demonstrated -- twice in some cases -- that they aren't good enough (from which negative assessment, I'd exclude Pukki, Krul and Gunn).

    It is still possible that S&S will get Rashica's head sorted and we will see him back to his best, and we will hopefully have a matured Tzolis back in the squad next season.

    What we should be judging progress on is a developing style of play fit for EPL purpose, and window by window metamorphosis of the squad into a group capable of effectively realising it. As I've said before, I see no point in promotion until that is achieved, and I think it may take two seasons. .
     
    #92
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  13. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    P.S. This from that Richard Becker match analysis in MFW, linked above by DH:
    "For me, Smith is under-appreciated by Norwich fans. He is developing a system that will be effective at Championship level and will hopefully make us competitive at Premier League level.
    The comparisons that conclude this football is in stark contrast to Daniel Farke’s, are wrong. We follow similar patterns but with a less dogmatic approach to ideology.
    This was in Norwich’s favour last night and won them the three points."
     
    #93
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2022
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  14. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    It's really odd that Farke won many games in the Championship easily with an inferior dogmatic ideology to Smith even though Smith has yet to achieve anything yet , other than transforming Sargent into a superstar.
    We have scraped wins rather than comprehensively beaten opponents so far.

    Also Farke won many games at Championship level because he played McLean and Hanley where as Smith has won 4 games despite being forced to play McLean and Hanley.

    Farke's problem at Premier league level wasn't that he was too stubborn and stupid to adapt as proclaimed by Robbie , it's because as "chef" he wasn't given the ingredients worthy of making a Premier league quality pudding .

    I'm absolutely certain thst IF Smith gets Norwich promoted he will have exactly the same problem as he had since taking over in the Premier league and Farke had also.

    I find it quite peculiar that rather than enjoy the little run of good results we are on some people would rather use it as a stick to beat Farke , a guy that produced two of the most entertaining seasons in our history in terms of style of play goals scored and two titles .

    ****ting on his legacy is not something I would expect from a Norwich fan especially at this stage .
     
    #94
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  15. Robbie BB

    Robbie BB Well-Known Member

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    Last week it was anything below a top 6 finish that was to count as "failure". Looks as if you now think Smith is going to clear that hurdle, so the hurdle has been raised to top 3 <laugh>.
     
    #95
  16. SuffolkCanary

    SuffolkCanary Well-Known Member

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    I think you have it backward Dunc, it's the fans that are ****ting on Norwich performances because we aren't watching a Farke side despite the fact we have won 4 games on the bounce.

    Those of us that support Smith are happy with things currently
     
    #96
  17. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    I don't think so , Farke is history and will be judged on his results/achievements.


    I'm responding to the poster that thinks we are all suffering from Farke withdrawal symptoms.

    Smith was given enough time to pull things round and keep Norwich up and was no better than Farke.

    The only negative criticism I have seen recently is the continuation of letting in stupid goals by individual mistakes, the fannying about at the back passing backwards to Krul that doesn't inspire confidence and the poor quality basics like throw ins.


    This isn't because they hate Smith and still bitter that Farke was sacked .

    Yet the same poster blames Smith's failure to keep us up because he inherited a bunch of crap Farke players .

    If Smith matches or betters Farke's record at Championship level and establishes us as a Premier league club it will be because of the success and money brought to Carrow Road not despite of it .

    Most level headed posters said give him 10 games before making a judgement we are 7 in and it's looking good so far but there's still room for improvement.
     
    #97
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  18. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    For me, success will be top 2 and top 6 would be ok, but disappointing given the players we now have compared to those Farke had in the Championship. I think that Dunc is right that we've scraped wins so far except for Millwall and we've been scraped by Cardiff and Hull. I'm not yet convinced by Smith's 'system' but I am hoping to be so soon, especially when Sara and Hayden are fully fit.

    I think we were right to move on from Farke simply because his system requires better players than we can afford. It doesn't surprise me that he's succeeding now that he has the players his system needs. SW failed to provide him with that here. I had hoped that Smith's pragmatism would make a difference last season but in the end it didn't.

    What I do like is the way he has reintegrated the players returning from loans to increase competition for places. I also like his emphasis on goals and assists as a measure of success. With four wins in a row he has a confidence base to work from but I'm still concerned about how slow our attacks are. It's early days though and I'm willing to wait and see.
     
    #98
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  19. SuffolkCanary

    SuffolkCanary Well-Known Member

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    In fairness Dunc, I don't believe you are a culprit of this, but a lot of the posters suggesting negatives are the ones that have made it clear they didn't want Farke to go and don't want Smith now.

    However, when Robbie quoted Richard Becker as saying "The comparisons that conclude this football is in stark contrast to Daniel Farke’s, are wrong. We follow similar patterns but with a less dogmatic approach to ideology.", you inserted the word "inferior", whereas I read the post as support of Smith's style rather than beating Farke's. Many posters and fans on social media have been saying that there is still no style of play, a stick to beat Smith with, whereas the post was in support of Smith having a similar style of play to Farke but with a bit more room for variation i.e playing with a different type of striker - perhaps based on the players that Smith has available to him now. However, Farke had a team with Buendia in and everything ran through him which made sense as he was like a cheatcode at this level.
     
    #99
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2022
  20. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    I concur one of Farke's biggest failures for me was his my way or the highway approach to man management.

    There are several examples of players being ostracised from the first team with no redemption .

    No way would Hugill, Cantwell , Sinani and Hernandez be given a second shot under Farke he seems very single minded when he no longer rates a player .

    I also like Smith's use of substitutions, it's refreshing to see players brought on around 70 minutes if things aren't going to plan so many times Farke would persist with the exact same 11 every game no matter how many games we has lost and then given Idah 5 minutes at the end when we had already lost .

    The biggest thing Smith brought was to try and rejuvenate a squad low on confidence and self belief.
    After 20 odd games that has only just started to materialise.

    Breaking that losing habit from last season and giving the fans something to shout about looked like it was beyond him and shaky , but a run of games against sides that until recently were playing in league one has helped .

    If we are looking at a head coach that produces results that may keep us playing in the Premier league we could do worse that pinch Ryan Lowe from Preston and just try to defend out a 0-0 every game .

    I'm enjoying this season purely because I've been starved of goals and wins for the last year , which both Smith and Farke failed to deliver.


    The question remains .

    Would Farke get us promoted with this squad ?

    I would say definitely

    Will Dean Smith get us promoted this season ?

    Absolutely no idea but I hope so .

    That's not Farke withdrawal syndrome it's judging two people on their results, performances and man management skills.
     
    #100

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