Terry accused of being racist once again.

That wasn't Croydon's assumption. He was saying that only African players were being described as naive. If so then it probably was racist.

 

Using the Kanu example to hole your argument below the waterline...

1. The word "unsophisticated" is used in the definition, FFS!
2. So a player that has Ajax and Inter on their CV lacks experience, judgment or information? Wesley Sneijder must be a thicko too...
3. Playing at Ajax and Inter won't teach somebody formal training or technique? Really?

please log in to view this image

 

Do players use the same unwritten rules of sportsmanship in every country?
If not, then presumably the naive remark was in terms of the English game, in which case it was entirely appropriate.
If they do, then Kanu should've been accused of being a complete arsehole, rather than being naive.

Doesn't he hold the record for the highest number of different major trophies or something?

 

Whenever Rigobert Song or Taribo West clattered an opponent, he was always called naive
Whenever Paul Scholes clattered an opponent, the commentators found it funny

Do you think the likes of Norman Hunter or Ron "Chopper" Harris were called naive during their careers?

I should also note they never called Song or West naieve on Cannel 4's Football Italia coverage, but as soon as a World Cup came along the BBC used it.

In both Holland and Italy, they play the ball out when an opponent is down injured - plus, if anyone should've been called an arsehole, it should've been Overmars. He knew what he was doing, but escaped all the blame.

 

It depends - if the commentator called all Caucasians naive and never used the term for other races then he is probably being racist. Racism results when you are attributing a particular quality to a race with no evidence.

 

Sorry, but that really is oversimplifying the matter. Yes, of course there are racists in the U.K, it would be naive to think otherwise, and I don't doubt that Terry, and a number of WHU fans are amongst them.
However, to try and compare the situation in the U.K. with what goes on in some other countries, is a spurious argument. Here in Spain, for example, the situation is far worse. You still hear the monkey chants at games - bananas are thrown. Very little is done about it. In other countries, such as Russia, the situstion is even worse.
No the English game is not free of racism - nor is it likely to be for another generation. However, we are far further down the road to ridding the game of it than many other, so called, advanced nations.

 

Did anyone at the BBC ever hold up a banner racially abusing Kanu or throw a banana at him?

 

Er no - if they only used the term for some non-Caucasians, but never for Caucasians then racism is a reasonable supposition. Because I used the example of 'all Caucasians' in my post doesn't allow you to infer that I think the outcome would be different if I'd used the word 'any'.

 

Sometimes subtle racism can do more damage and, therefore be more offensive, than blatant stuff, I'm afraid.

 

It's not applied to black players of, say, England, France or Holland - but is applied to black players of Cameroon, Nigeria, Senegal, Ghana, Ivory Coast...noticing a pattern yet, or still electing to ignore it?

Monkey chants at Preston vs Millwall, 2011: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...monkey-chants-during-warm-up-at-Millwall.html
Monkey chants at West Ham vs Millwall, 2009: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/aug/26/west-ham-millwall-racist-abuse
Monkey chants at Blackburn vs Birmingham, 2004: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...lly-brilliant-blackburn-comeback-6157462.html
Anti-gypsy chants by England fans vs Vulgaria, 2011: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ans-face-racism-backlash-Bulgaria-chants.html

It's still there, it's just people elect not to hear them - or report them.

No, they merely implied he was ignorant by using a term that is habitually aimed towards black African players by pundits and commentators, and has been since Zaire's appearance at the 1974 World Cup.

 

I'm sorry, but that's clearly not true in this case.

Never heard the term naive defending applied to any non-African player?
Really?
I don't think so.

Vulgaria?!
Racist!

Sorry Croydon, but the comparison is just wildly inaccurate.
Everyone has already accepted that British football is far from perfect in this area, but Russia is far, far worse and Spain's easily the worst for it in western Europe.

 

So when was Paul Scholes, Norman Hunter or Ron "Chopper" Harris described as naive when they clattered an opponent?

What do you mean you can't find any evidence?

You mean there isn't any?

Then you conceed the point?

Good.

And let's look at this claim, shall we?

"Our racism is bad, but others are far worse"? That sounds remarkably familiar: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13444770

You mean there's types of racism that aren't as bad as other types of racism now? You mean it's less offensive and backwards when English fans make racist chants than Spanish or Russian ones? How does that logic not keep you awake at night?

And, no, people haven't accpeted English football is far from perfect - they pretend racism doesn't exist, so it takes the combined efforts of Luis Suarez and John Terry to make people realise it still exists in the English game.

 

Since when has cynically hacking somebody down been a naive action?

Try Googling naive defending and see how many responses you get and how many of them are directed at African teams.
It's a commonly used phrase.

This whole rant is ridiculous.
The rape comparison is just unnecessary, at best.

An old man makes a racist joke.
A group of people lynch a black man because of his colour.
Are these the same?
No?
Then your point is ludicrous.

 

Is within their rights? Could you not understand me when I said

The answer to the second point is that it is half-witted, misguided partisan support.

Racism, homophobia, bullying of any sort should be dealt with as harshly as possible and if these Twitter comments are as bad as you suggest - prosecute them. Simples as they say in Chelski.

 

First of all, gypsies aren't a race. Two of the other incidents you have cited are involving Millwall fans (why am I not surprised) the article on the Blacburn game, I can't access the link. So, really, we're talking about West Ham & Millwall fans, and John Terry - who if he wasn't a Pro-footballer, would probably be in one of those home crowds.
I repeat, the situation is far worse in other countries - including Spain, where it happens every week, and still nothing is done.
You seem intent on demonstating that there is still racism in English football - I don't think many are denying that. What we are disputing here, is comparative degrees of it.

 

Sorry ol son but pikies are not a race but romany gypsies are a race that can be traced hundreds of generations back to India

 

I've never seen gypsies of any description classified as a race, anywhere. There are only three main race classifications Caucasoid, *****loid, & *******. This is widely agreed by all respected anthropologists. Anything else would be a sub-classification, at best.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

 

I know Gypsies are a race,but as they are so far dispersed around the world it sometimes makes it hard to think of them as a single race.In Spain they have probably the highest amount in Europe and even having lived here for many years i don't really think of them as a race but as an outcast society( they most certainly are treated as such).If you have never been to one of the large Gypsy areas in Spain you really are missing something quite extraordinary and also at times very dangerous.