1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Wandering Yid, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,307
    Likes Received:
    55,788
  2. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,821
    Likes Received:
    30,603
    So if unions pull their funding in response, how does that get spun?
     
    #22382
  3. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,307
    Likes Received:
    55,788
    It doesn't. The Tories win again, ban all unions and strikes and Corbyn purists rejoice.
     
    #22383
  4. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,821
    Likes Received:
    30,603
    After the Forde Report's publication, and it being written in black and white what the Blairites were up to for four years especially in 2017 and 2019, that line really needs to be taken out the back and shot between the eyes
     
    #22384
  5. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,307
    Likes Received:
    55,788
    No, it really doesn't.
    ****ing the Labour Party because someone else supposedly ****ed them is a gift to the Tories.

    Tarry acted like a prick because of his deselection.
    He basically spells it out in this article posted on the 9th:
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...llot-ilford-south-angela-rayner-b1011041.html
     
    #22385
  6. Left on the Shelf

    Left on the Shelf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2019
    Messages:
    11,660
    Likes Received:
    13,268
    Indeed. Tarry knew that his unofficial off-message media quotes would have to see him lose his Shadow Cabinet role. If he didn't like the policy then he could have resigned. He didn't.

    I totally get that seemingly failing to support workers on a picket line is anathema for any Labour supporters, but this is not the time for individuals to set themselves against the leadership. All that does is give the media and the Tories ammunition to help them get off the ropes: R4Today rolling out Diane Abbott to answer loaded questions from Nick Robinson being a prime example.

    If an election is called in the next 6 months at least, then there is every chance of a change of Government. Let's face it, anything other than Tory will be an improvement and then a new Labour or coalition administration can be held to account.
     
    #22386
    PowerSpurs and PleaseNotPoll like this.

  7. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,821
    Likes Received:
    30,603
    Yes, it was a gift to the Tories

    In 2019

    Starmer acted like a prick because he said that Tarry was sacked for inventing policy on the fly, which begs the question why Rachel Reeves wasn't sacked earlier this week for...inventing policy on the fly, as between 9am and lunchtime Labour had burned through four separate policies on rail nationalisation entirely because of Reeves inventing policy on the fly during an interview

    Saying that he sacked somebody for something he turns a blind eye to when one of his inner circle does the exact same thing is a gift to the Tories, especially when Starmer could just as easily had done nothing - after all, Tarry was getting deselected - as that would have given the Tories no ammunition at all

    Luke Akehurst has surely got to be in with a shout as the worst advisor in recent British political history, when you consider how often Starmer finds himself taking the wrong path and having situations that could have been avoided eating up days (or weeks) of the news cycle
     
    #22387
  8. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,307
    Likes Received:
    55,788
    She misheard something and corrected herself. Tarry clearly did neither of those things.
    Tarry created this situation intentionally and you know he did.
     
    #22388
  9. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,086
    Likes Received:
    5,667
    Under Corbyn the country voted to leave the EU and Johnson won a massive majority. It doesn't matter why or whether Corbyn had the best policies, he was a disaster as the Leader of the Opposition.
     
    #22389
    PleaseNotPoll likes this.
  10. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,086
    Likes Received:
    5,667
    You need to look up what 'begs the question' actually means as you always misuse it....

    I know most people also make the same mistake but it's a very useful concept and it would be a shame to lose it.
     
    #22390
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2022
  11. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,307
    Likes Received:
    55,788
    I think that Corbyn had some good policies and they were pretty popular in isolation.
    The man himself seemed to intentionally walk into minefields, though.
    A lot of the attacks on him were disingenuous at best, but he left himself so open to them.
     
    #22391
    remembercolinlee likes this.
  12. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,821
    Likes Received:
    30,603
    If Reeves "misspoke" then Starmer would have stuck to the party line and cleared up the SNAFU within an hour

    Starmer did not do this, instead his response to reeves "misspeaking" was to give a noncommittal statement about fiscal responsibility (and thankfully did not bring NATO into it...) while avoiding actually saying what the policy on rail nationalisation was, as that clarification did not come until the mid-afternoon, or to put it another way he eventually gave a fifth policy on the same day

    Which once again points to some really poor direction from Luke Akehurst, because once again Starmer could have gone on record and said what the policy was and kept a clear, firm line going forward - instead it was a muddle when there was no reason for it to be one
     
    #22392
  13. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,086
    Likes Received:
    5,667
    His policies were fine but he was a hopeless leader and should never have been put in that position. Boris Johnson is much worse in every respect of course...
     
    #22393
    PleaseNotPoll likes this.
  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,821
    Likes Received:
    30,603
    In care you weren't paying attention, the country voted to leave the EU under David Cameron

    And, again, when the Forde Report lays out the degree of sabotage going on at labour HQ because the Blairites couldn't handle somebody who wasn't one of them running the party, to the point they were siphoning funds intended to fight for marginal seats to safe seats, it becomes clear who was useless in the opposition: the people who decided that the country only wanted Tories or Blairites in charge
    I think you need to re-read the comment and realise that I was using the phrase in exactly the way that it should be used
     
    #22394
  15. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,086
    Likes Received:
    5,667
    The Leader of the Opposition's only job is to oppose stupid policies of the Government and win elections. Corbyn failed on both counts. It doesn't matter what the reasons were. Under almost any other possible Labour leader we would still be in the EU.
     
    #22395
  16. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,821
    Likes Received:
    30,603
    Starmer is currently failing on the first count, and the last time I checked we're also not in the EU under Starmer
     
    #22396
  17. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,086
    Likes Received:
    5,667
    Agreed on the first point but it only matters when there us actually a vote.
    Your second point is bonkers. Corbyn is one of those left wingers who can't support the EU because it is essentially a capitalist organisation. The pragmatic view is that it is much better than the alternative and he should have fought hard to keep us in.
     
    #22397
  18. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,307
    Likes Received:
    55,788
    I'd have been much happier if he committed to something on Brexit, even if it were leaving.
    He could've pushed for a more sensible policy and it would've been better for him in the election.
     
    #22398
  19. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,086
    Likes Received:
    5,667
    A proper leader would have clamped down on such stuff though. Starmer sacks people who undermine him. Corbyn didn’t even seem to know it was happening.
     
    #22399
  20. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,821
    Likes Received:
    30,603
    And that's the issue: Stamer isn't opposing Tory policy when there isn't a vote, as demonstrated by him supporting NHS privatisation a couple of weeks back with the insane logic that supporting NHS privatisation could win him an election. Who the ****ing hell suggested to him that NHS privatisation is a surefire vote winner? It's utterly bonkers, not only because it's hard to see how that will appeal to red Wall voters but also because you can see it pissing off voters everywhere else

    Also, my second point is not bonkers, not since Starmer ruled out rejoining the single market at the start of the month with his "Make Jonestown Work", which is not the pragmatic option because we're in a mess of the Tories' creation that is as toxic and unworkable as the Chernobyl No4 reactor, the pragmatic option is to say you respect the result but wish to keep freedom of movement and access to the single market - and guess whose position that was, before getting backseated into second referendum?
     
    #22400

Share This Page