The British Army

I know i am probably pissing in the wind here but anyhoo

In my head it made obvious sense. The issue was/is twofold. 1 soldiers are doing stuff most wouldnt ie protection security etc. To put yourself on the line for others is indeed the ultimate sacrifice imo

these days the wars(again imo) are not so galant/heroic. so I wouldnt join currently, would you was the question.

therefore the first bit was to show that I am not talking of all soldiers per se, just those joining now knowing what they know
are they hero's or villians?

and i assure you i am not getting angry

 

again if you read what i wrote rather than what you see through the red mist

I clearly said this was once true, but no longer imo. you differ good for you

those who join now to do what they did in iraq are IMO thugs for hire and have made a mockery of those who lost their lives for true causes WW1 and 2 being good examples of good causes

I dont believe these are heroes in the true sense of the word. hence my belief that help for heroes should not be called that
this doesnt mean those soldiers injured dont need support etc. The fact that a 'charity' is doing the supporting and not the government cheapens and demeans the soldiers
IMO of course

 

sam that is why i distinguished the soldiers who had no choice as they were in the military, and those joining now knowing what we do.

do you feel that they had no choice?

 

I think my previous response applies here. Soldiers follow the orders of their superiors so if you don't agree with the intentions of modern wars perhaps you should be commenting on the people giving the orders instead of the majority of soldiers who sign up to make a difference.

 

unfortunately thats how this is being played out.
yet the people these wars were fought against were if anything allies at one time or another

most muslims would take issue with you if you called saddam and gaddafi muslims. the people in iraq and libya were oppressed and murdered when they were put in power and the same when they were taken out.

these wars are never X v Y imo. thats just propaganda/justification. If anything its X v X

 

If you read the OP sam I clearly distinguished between those who had to follow orders and those who made a choice knowing what we know

 

Soldiers go to fight where they are told to fight. For those that are slagging them off think twice about where you would be without our forces defending this nation and it's interests.

If you want to have a go, have a go at the politicians and other power brokers that 'choose' where our forces are sent.

 

Laying down your life for your country plays no part in anyone's (let alone Soldiers') thinking, I can assure you. It is the stuff of propaganda and Boy's Own stories which no one that I know of would be stupid enough to buy into, and that is precisely why your mention of it is grossly insulting, by inference you are making out that some soldiers do believe that hokum.

Which wars are gallant/heroic? Depending upon someone's viewpoint = none, as can be seen from some of the predictable responses on this thread.

People joining the Army are neither "villains" nor "heroes". To be considered in either bracket they would have to carry out an act which would be regarded as "heroic" or "Villainous", so that suggestion is so laughable as to be idiotic. It's not black and white as you make out, but you, in your eagerness to try and make a point, have blundered in both feet first and failed abysmally to make any valid points..........again.

What do soldiers joining the Army "now know" according to you? Why is the war in Afghanistan so heinious that people should be chastised (by you in your wisdom) or judged "bad" for volunteering to take part?

Is it because they are fighting Muslims?

 

as mentioned gambol, The Op was asking if we can apply some of those principles to the current wars. As i said old timers had no choice. what about new comers?

I agree the politicians are ****s, but say someone joined today knowing and feeling that it was wrong how can that person be a hero?

 

All soldiers have to follow the orders of their superiors. It's the people sitting in their comfortable offices sending them into harm's way we should be criticising.

 

They don't want your sympathy or your respect you slavvering dolt, do you comprehend?

 

Why are the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan wrong? Who says? You?

 

you won't get much sense out of the GC lot aber..

 

I have already addressed the muslim thing, so will let that go.

all war is about hero's and villains. It is propaganda I grant you, however, the propaganda works due to heros and villians

hitler was a villain, communism was a villian etc, 'we saved the world from tyranny' etc.

Recruitment campaigns would suggest it is this notion of heroism that drew many to enlist, the greater good being the objective

this greater good notion has been demolished imo with the current forays, the likes of bush and blair being the villians.

I think you are just blinkered due to your own background.

Why did you join up?

 

Disny matter a ****. I didny realise there used to be 'good all wars' where it was all heroism and stiff upper lip. Conscript or volunteer for any war deserves respect. If they didn't do it, who would?

The politics of war are a legitimate target for our anger/disrespect but don't tar the soldiers with that brush. They do their job when they are told to.

 

only once they have joined

If they choose to join knowing full well that they will be fighting an illegal war then they have only themselves to blame

 

Oh right. Now I see. You're a ****in idiot.

 

is this where you justify Iraq with your 'insider' knowledge?

 

Soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan according to you are bad and get what they deserve. Is that what you are floundering about trying to say?

I'm afraid it's plain to see just who is the blinkered individual.