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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Hammersmith bookie

    Hammersmith bookie Well-Known Member

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  2. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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  3. YorkshireHoopster

    YorkshireHoopster Well-Known Member

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    Absolute quality. But unlike the subject matter all of it true. Anybody willing to stick their head above the parapet to paint a different picture of the man's achievements? Preferably without hesitation, repetition, deviation and above all, that old con trick, deflection. Here's a starter for 10. 'He got Brexit done.' Take that one as a given.
     
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  4. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    He got Brexit done :).
    He also oversaw a very successful vaccine programme and was the leading foreign leader in supporting Ukraine.

    Apart from that, he was mainly very poor.
     
    #77484
    peter1954qpr and Goldhawk-Road like this.
  5. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Brexit isn't done, though. Northern Ireland?
     
    #77485
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  6. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    That's one of the areas where he's been poor.
    He got Brexit done by breaking the paralysis in parliament due to the anti democratic remainers.
    Since then, Boris and the government haven't delivered enough of what was promised.
     
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  7. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    The tail doesn't wag the dog. Whoever replaces Boris Johnson must be prepared to renew dialogue with the EU on N Ireland but, if all else fails, to amend the Protocol. That is the purpose of Article 16, after all. It allows "either party to take unilateral "strictly necessary" measures if applying the protocol "leads to serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist, or to diversion of trade"."

    If the EU insists on a trade war thereafter, the country most damaged would be Ireland, which would be crazy. A good, old fashioned EU fudge is needed.
     
    #77487
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  8. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

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    Johnson created a problem not the EU. The U.K. put together the supposed oven ready deal.. that should have been it, the EU agreed to the deal, if they had then turned around and asked for changes the narrative would have been tough **** you shouldn’t have signed it. It’s not the Eu who are asking for changes, they are expecting it to be upheld in line with the law.

    The trade war, as you call it is on the shoulders of one party here and that’s the people who wrote it, signed it and now saying they’re gonna break it.

    Anyone with any ethics would admit they ****ed up, admit it was the U.K.s fault and respectfully ask to look at options rather than just say **** you we will just break the agreement.
     
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  9. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    What's needed is for Tobias Ellwood to become Tory leader. We could have a GE with the Tories campaigning to rejoin the Single Market. <laugh>
     
    #77489
  10. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    Ellwood isn't standing, so I'm sorry to break it to you, but it ain't gonna happen. Even Starmer realises...if he's being as straight as he keeps telling everyone he is
     
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  11. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    If you can't amend the Protocol, what's the point of Article 16?
     
    #77491
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  12. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

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    Ok are we saying the original agreement was a total **** up on those who wrote it? If you’d signed up for an agreement, that the other party had wrote and signed would you not expect serious concessions because they’d over looked a huge ****ing problem? If it was the Eu that had done it there’s absolutely no doubt those who voted leave would expect some.
     
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  13. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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  14. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    When you negotiate and sign an agreement of massive proportions like the Protocol, it's essential to have a flexibility clause that lets either side amend the agreement as necessary after implementation to ensure it works for all parties. That's what Article 16 is for - because it was accepted when the Protocol was drafted, no one had the 20/20 foresight to predict exactly how it would work in practice.
     
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  15. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    This is bullshit. Johnson and Frost knew full well that the deal was unworkable without a border in the Irish Sea. They just lied about it.
     
    #77495
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  16. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

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    Its so disingenuous to suggest otherwise can you imagine if it were the other way round? If it had been the EU’s contract and they were demanding major changes… it’s so sad that there’s a narrative that people are believing that it’s ‘the unreasonable EU’ to blame.
     
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  17. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

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    They pressed forward to get Brexit done, knowing they had Article 16 if the EU took a ridiculously inflexible attitude in practice, which they have. Impossibly bureaucratic customs processes, inflexible regulations etc The EU are acting in bad faith. They have said that the loss of N.Ireland is the price the UK must pay for Brexit. Which is ****ing stupid given the incendiary nature of politics over there. The fact that sausages cannot be exported from the mainline or M&S sandwiches is a nonsense. There must be variations to make it work.
     
    #77497
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  18. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    Yep, which is exactly what some EU leaders threatened would happen.
    There's fault on both sides imo but some only see fault with this country.
     
    #77498
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  19. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Johnson said there would be a border in the Irish Sea 'over his dead body', then signed a deal ensuring that there would be one. Frost, the architect of the deal, afterwards said it was unworkable. They lied and signed a deal that they had no intention of honouring. The only logical solution is to rejoin the Single Market.
     
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  20. Willhoops

    Willhoops Well-Known Member

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    So putting something the Torys know is unworkable in is acting in good faith? Oh come off it It’s just getting embarrassing and silly now.

    I do a little bit of procurement work. If someone puts together a tender/contract through, yes there is likely to be a clause for negotiations on certain unknown factors such as if the scope were to change or it’s a 5 year contract and the fluctuation of material costs. However not to be able to work within the framework of delivering the contact of what you are proposing? Which is 100/% the case here. In industry you’d be out of business in no time.
     
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