Off Topic Politics Thread

Unfortunately I have to disagree on this one.

Another 18 months of hatred and division is the last thing this country (referring to both Scotland and the U.K. as a whole).

Although I feel a great deal of sympathy with Scotland over Brexit and persistent Torying, I’m not sure that responding to it with Brexit plus plus plus is a good idea, a permanent solution to what Brexit and voting demographics argue could well be a temporary (generational) problem. The irony of Brexit is that British under 40s are probably the most pro EU grouping in the whole of Europe, galvanised by the reality of Brexit.

The SNPs approach to independence campaigning is also similar to Vote Leave etc in that they don’t give any concrete answers to any of the very real concerns presented for example the prospect of a hard border on GB (a totally abhorrent concept to me) is hand waived away as either ‘oh it won’t happen’ which has shades of the Brexiteer approach to NI, or ‘it’ll be Westminsters problem’.

There is also a big societal concern re a result like 51-49 in favour to leave (a very real possibility), which would get an independent Scotland off to a very weak start and could cause permanent and possibly aggressive social divisions. Whereas 51-49 to remain would leave the question ‘unresolved’ and campaigning for the third referendum would likely commence immediately.

This isn’t to say I don’t think an independent Scotland could stand up on its own, but it would be a blow to both Scotland and the remainder of the U.K. and one in which both would no longer be able to maintain the standards they could achieve together. I also can’t see a way in which they avoid an instant dive into austerity to re-level their economy.

Re Sturgeon, there is no doubting that she is a much more professional and clean politician than Johnson, but I just can’t get the love for someone who stands for sewing division and nationalism. The idea that Scottish nationalism is somehow different from other forms nationalism doesn’t fly for me, I just can’t see it as a positive. I am also not convinced the SNP have really done that good a job running the devolved elements of Scotland so far, beyond their own very effective PR.

I am unsure re whether another referendum is justified at this time, I mean I can’t argue that there isn’t a reasonable case with pro referendum parties holding the narrow majority in the Scottish Parliament, but you also can’t run a country (in this case the U.K.) properly with a significant portion of it constantly yo-yoing on whether to leave or not, this is the reason why these things should be held as once in a generation max. I don’t think there is another country out there that would allow back to back referendums on a matter such as this in such a narrow time frame. Quebec is probably the only example I can think of.

 

The 49-51 either way is far to close for such a momentous decision as was the 48-52 brexit vote I called for a qualified majority at the time and since and believe it should apply in any future referenda.

 

The Conservatives are no longer a unionist party, they are an English Nationalist party, and in many ways removing Scotland cements their power in Westminster - but there are too many traditional Conservatives, plus the impact of their image on the world stage, plus the wind power richness of Scotland that are blockers for them to ever accept Scottish independence.
Ian has also raised good points about being open about the other practical implications.

 

Everything is **** flavoured. I'm 61 years old and have never felt so pessimistic about my country's future.

 

The claim that the Tories are an ‘English Nationalist Party’ is an anglophobic fallacy.

They do not represent England, they do not have Englands interests at heart above that of any other part of the U.K. Frankly they do not have the interests of any part of the U.K. at heart, England is no different in that regard.

They represent the wants and needs of themselves and their backers, nothing more.

English voters have the weakest level of political representation within the U.K.

 

I agree that their first motive is self empowerment and financial gain and they are not Nationalists in the traditional sense, but their powerbase is in England and they concentrate their appeasement to to English voters first and foremost.

 

Their majority is formed in Rural England for now, but they also have power bases in North East Scotland, Southern Scotland and Rural Wales.

In terms of policy I see them less English Nationalist and more Anti-British these days.

Every action they take is against the interests of the U.K and it’s constituent elements.

 

Great cover on the new Private Eye:

 

The one they missed is …….
This ****er is a grade A ****.

 

His brains (small and under developed) were found below his belt.

 

Gold

 

Tory deputy chief whip resigns after being caught groping two blokes - his name ? - Chris Pincher ! You couldn`t make it up!

 

What an arse.

 

Chief Whip Chris Pincher would make a hell of a stage name for a leather-clad stage performer.

Which, hey, might be his next occupation.

 

Johnson described as being "sexually incontinent" during this piece.