Let's put this result into perspective, our team of massively paid and pampered PL player of the year candidates have just been battered 4-0 at home to a team that had a player from the bottom club in the Championship starting for them. This should send more shockwaves than the famous 6-3 loss against the Magyars at Wembley in 1953.
Its an awful tournament at an even worse time. Shouldn't have even happened IMO. Judging players and staff on this is foolish.
France are also bottom of their group on 2 points. None of the big teams have particularly shone. Just think it’s ridiculous having four internationals in two weeks. Obviously the players aren’t best pleased about it. There’s a deeper issue here than just Southgate and his tactics. You don’t lose 4-0 to Hungary because of tactics. Surely.
In more important news referring in the Allwhites Costa Rica game was an absolute disgrace. Disallowed goal was stupidly harsh and a penalty decision that would have been given 9/10. Really sad for the NZ boys to lose out through officiating, robbing us all of a great game and potential WC.
Most other England managers would have done the same or better. We had very easy draws in both and this is arguably a better squad than 1990, certainly the best squad in my lifetime. Southgate is overrated tactically inept and has his favourites which get picked despite their form, Maguire being a prime example. Why did he take off England's most creative players on the night? Bowen then Gallagher. Anyone will be better than Southgate for the world Cup.
I would say Southgate has stil exceeded expectations though would you not? Nobody on here was predicting a semi and a final from the next two tournaments when he was appointed. As much as we've got a lot of talent now that 2018 squad was dirt really and should have been nowhere near a semi. Last year we didn't lose a match in normal time and conceded 2 goals across the whole tournament. Look I don't think he's brilliant and have said before he's quite clearly tactically limited but he deserves far more respect than he gets for what he's done and I think people forget just how bad things were. I think this will naturally be his last tournament anyway (also think we'll have a bad one regardless ) but I honestly think it'd be grossly unfair to deny him it and don't see in any value in making the change now with two games left before the opener.
If we play like we have in this window I think we could well go out in the group stage. I am not saying that to be a wum, more that they need to acknowledge there are issues and address them or a group stage exit is a real possibility and I am frustrated as there are weak excuses bouncing around. The current set up isn’t working, but I haven’t actually called for Southgate to go following this match. Blooming heck you have a better memory than me, for what it’s worth… no. But I would say that Lampard has had a better managerial career at this point than Southgate had when he took over the NT job, so I actually don’t think it’s such actually as crazy as it’s made out to be in context. There is a significant list I would have ahead of him should the time come though.
Anyone would have done the same or a better is a lazy and false argument though. Could say anyone would make at least a semi with the previous so called golden generation in the 00's. Anyone would make finals and win stuff with the squad Belgium have had in the last 6-8 years too right? I also think this very easy draw stuff is a tad disrespectful and also ignores it was the same for SBR in 1990. Colombia aren't top level but were a good side and Denmark are easily a top 8 team in the world right now and far better than the likes of Portugal and Holland If you think anyone could do it what would your minimum expectation be for a new manager at the WC?
You can fluke one tournament, but to then get to final of the next and almost win it IMO isn't a fluke. I wish I was that inept in my day job. He was a post or a keeper's hand from being made a knight. He has more than enough credit in the bank to lead us in Qatar.
I don't think we will be this bad come thw tournament though. We'll certainly be harder to beat but I still think we won't have a great tournament. A group stage exit is obviously possible as it is for anyone but very unlikely I would say and would need a loss to Iran imo as I don't rate this current US side at all. The Lampard bit was just tongue in cheek really as I don't rate him at all. Can't really compare domestic to international management though as it's a completely different skillsets. I reckon some of the best managers in world football wouldn't cut it internationally.
This isn’t our best squad. We had a better squad in the 90s, and definitely in the 00s. How can you say it’s out best squad when we have Stones and Maguire as our first choice CBs? All England managers have underachieved. Venables was okay, but only had one (home) tournament so it’s difficult to say. Southgate has done better than the whole lot of them, since Ramsay. This is just a fact.
For me the best team we've taken to a tournament in my lifetime was Euro 2004. You had pre injury Owen, a young explosive Rooney, the midfielders obviously and Ferdinand, Terry and Campbell all in the 25-30 age range. Can't believe we only made the quarters. Still not over it tbh We've got far more depth in some positions now (full backs and wide players mainly) but none of our CBs are even half as good as any of the three above. We're still lacking that top CM that all the best international sides have too.
Been saying this, and not joking either. Obviously Southgate isn't going anywhere before the World Cup, and deserves his chance to lead England there (though I think, and have thought for about forever that he's not terribly good - you wouldn't want him anywhere near the Saints job, so...) But Poch, genuinely, I think would be a brilliant international manager, and particularly for England. Players love him, and he's a great man manager, which is what a huge amount of international management boils down to.
Agree completely. He's scary good for his age and even tonight in the **** showed his quality at times. Definitely have high hopes for him in the coming two tournaments and hopefully him and Rice can form a good partnership for years to come as they should compliment each other well.
TBH the 2026 World Cup should be the target. Bellingham will be 22, Foden 25, Tomori 28 at CB, Ramsdale should be first choice keeper. Players like Tino and Gallagher could be England regulars by then. Hopefully Sancho will fulfil his potential. Kane will be 32 so should still be at a high enough level. I think England will have a huge opportunity in 2026 to win the tournament.
The only thing I think he might struggle with is implementing the style with such little time to work with the players. Mainly the successful international teams who play in that way tend to have lots of players from the same clubs which we don't really have at the moment. Obviously that could change in the future though and it would be interesting to see him internationally as I completely agree that his man management style would really suit it. Think it'll be a few years away before he wants that anyway.
To be fair we scored a perfectly good goal in the last minute against Portugal that was ruled out. But yeah that team had no weak position. You didn’t even mention Ashley Cole, probably our best LB for 30 odd years. And Gary Neville.
