Rangers fans have a friendship with Chelsea, Pompey, Linfield and probably Millwall. An unholy alliance of "Blues Brothers"
Really don't get the dislike for Rangers for it's connection to the Union of the UK. Why that is seen as bringing Glasgow into disrepute while another club in that city being the sporting arm of the IRA is apparently acceptable. Maybe it's a religious thing.
I think you might be referring to my comment about the possibility of bringing the city of Glasgow into disrepute. This was more to do with hordes of them.getting drunk, with the possibility of a vicious over-reaction from the Spanish riot police. As for openly displaying there "unionist" learning, it somewhat surprises me given the trashing of its traditional industrirs by largely Tory administrations. I would have thought many Gers' supporters were more SNP these days but it doesn't seem reflected in their supporters regalía. As for Celtic, they are a Scottish club and as such their fans ought to.be flying the Scottish colours rather than Irish tricolores. Funnily enough, their chairman opposed Scottish Independence. Shame on him.for supporting a Westminster Government.
So Luton make the playoffs! Hopefully one of them or Forest come up for a change and a return to the top flight.
What are they putting in the water in the South West and West of England with Exeter, Forest Green and Bristol Rovers promoted. That was some goal.swing for them today at Northampron's expense.
It's not the current political circumstances or how the Tories affect the lives of staunch supporters today, the rivalry is rooted in what happened politically in Glasgow in the early 20th century. The relocation of shipbuilders, Harland and Wolffe, and the company's policy of who they hired, where the workforce originated from and the club they adopted. The 'Old Firm' dividing line was (and probably still is) religion -the 90 minute bigot, Protestant-v-Roman Catholic, Crown -v-Pope - hence the Union Jack and Irish tricolour on display.
I was surprised to learn that the Union Jack is considered “racist” by some very lefty people It was casually dropped in a tabletop gaming podcast when they had a side discussion about biscuits and googled some and the picture had the type they were looking for with a Union Jack on them and the host casually mention “oh so apparently “x biscuit” can also be racist” My jaw nearly hit the floor. What an appalling attitude that I assume is counted even more for the England flag but not the Irish , Scottish or Welsh ones. It made me think of a history podcast that mentioned how in 1966 the crowd all had union flags and not England ones despite it being in England and the England team. Discussing the change in the perception of Englishness etc
It’s a mindset I absolutely detest if I’m honest. It’s such a weak attitude to have because it effectively relinquishes control of the symbols of our national identity to the extremists and aids them in their goals, rather than fight to reclaim them and make them stand for the many good aspects of our society that still do exist. Sidenote - It also makes me laugh that somehow the English get saddled with all of the hatred and ire of the world for the sins of the British Empire, yet the Scots seem to be completely pardoned by the World and seen as a colonial victim. Scots were very much at the forefront of the Empire and not against their will, I say that as someone who utterly loves Scotland, but it is a rewrite of history that shouldn’t be allowed to stand.
My point above demonstrates the complete absence of nuance there is at the moment. It is quite appalling Further investigation is probably best for the politics thread? I’d be intrigued to know about the Scots who were at the forefront. I don’t doubt it is true I just don’t know the details It is similar to how I got the vibe in Australia that they were quite keen to push the blame for the worst of their crimes against the indigenous population onto the British. I’m not having that I’m afraid. As to the Empire - there is an argument that if it didn’t exist or was greatly diminished then Britain folds in 1941. And history becomes very different. Whether the Nazis actually succeed in the long run is likely more complicated than that (and likely depending on who controls where in this counterfactual)
I’m not sure that has quite the same impact. Although it is a headache of a counterfactual because if Britain has lost it’s empire by 1914 is Germany still jealous of this? Do Germany have some of those territories instead. I was more just going off something I heard a historian say when on a podcast when someone mentioned Britain standing alone in Europe and he said “along with 3/4 of the world’s merchant shipping and the Empire”. And it made me think about if that wasn’t the case
Greg / Shandy There are some really interesting point in both of your posts. I am really grateful that we do not have the sectarian issues in the English game and would contest the right of Scottish clubs to play in an English leave simply for no other reason that they would bring this to our leagues. It would be fascinating to see how this argument would play in an independent league which, presumably, would surely cement the argument for not allowing this and casting all the Scottish clubs to a pretty meaningless set of competitions. It does strike me as a bit pathetic casting protestant against catholic when so much of the UK is actually agnostic. The situation in Ireland is even worse where 17th century arguments have prevented what is not the unreasonable argument for the Irish people to govern themselves as a whole. In fact, I am not sure what the case is for retaining the Union now and I think it is effectively reaching it's natural end. Scotland's role in the UK and the British Empire now seems to to cast England as the hostile party whereas the Scottish were more that enthusiastic and willing partners in the less savory elements of the Empire at one time. One book I would thoroughly recommend is Karen Blixen's "Out of Africa" and there is a chapter in that book where she writes about the impact of the Scottish Presbytarian church in Kenya which is quite intrguing insofar that she was a Dane and could appreciate the quirky fashion in which the Scottish church manifested itself within the local community. I think the likes of Sturgeon are too keen to cast England as the villain whislt perhaps ignoring the impact of the Black and Tans in Ireland in the early 20th century. Scotland has willfully embraced both the good and bad elements of the British Empire and her argument is very imbalanced. A good number of attrocities perpetrated in the name of the British Empire were carried out by Scots. There is a really interesting book by Fergus Fleming which cam out in the early 2000s which sought to explain the Empire and came out with the conclusion that it's most lasting legacy was the spread of English language as well as contrasting the quality of English Law in contrast to the legal systems of other colonial powers. It was an interesting argument but also suggested that one of the greatest achievements was the spread of Association Football and cricket. Scotland, of course, played a particularly strong role in the former with the development of "combination play." It is really easy to present an anti-English argument and ferment anti-English sentiment but there is no reason why former colonial countries like French , Belgium and Spain should not be subject to similar approbrium. Having read a few books recently about the Philippines, Spanish involvement in these islands up until 1899 when the American's kicked them out was surpisingly shcoking - even going as far as forcing a cargo ship to return so that they could arrest and utlimately execute the national wirter Jose Rizal - shades of Erskine Childers a few years later , I suppose.
