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The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 5th May)

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by ellandback, May 5, 2022.

  1. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    perfect1.jpg

    Good Morning. It's Thursday 5th May, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road


    So much about this season has been wrong

    Leeds Utd journalist Phil Hay has insinuated that the Leeds board gave Marcelo Bielsa too much freedom when things started to go wrong this season. The former Chief Football Writer for the YEP believes that Radrizzani should have tightened Bielsa's reigns when 'results began to cause concern and the dressing room looked bare' but instead 'left the tail to wag the dog'.

    Hay also reconfirmed that the Argentine was responsible for approving all signings Leeds made during his tenure. As we now know, he vetoed many players he did not rate. Back in January, he blocked the loan signings of Donny van de Beek and Harry Winks (as was confirmed in this article), but did he do the same last Summer?

    "It is not in dispute that Bielsa approved the signings made by Leeds and set tight parameters for the type of players he wanted. He was never forced to take signings he did not want or did not rate. The club were hands-off in that respect, in the same way that they refused to dictate or interfere with Bielsa’s training routine. Autonomy was what underpinned Bielsa’s peak years and the relationship would not have worked if Leeds had not been prepared to let him manage as he saw fit."

    "So much about this season has been wrong, though, and it is not a great defence for the board to say that when results began to cause concern and the dressing room looked bare, they left the tail to wag the dog. Leeds were telling themselves they would be OK in January and saying so publicly, only to sack Bielsa a month later. For too long, there was inertia on all sides, a reluctance to bite the bullet, do what had to be done and consider positive change, on the field or off it. Hindsight reveals so many junctures where the club and Bielsa could have helped themselves."

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    Caprile eyes exit

    Shot stopper Elia Caprile is due to hold talks with Victor Orta about his Elland Road future, having impressed during his season long loan with Serie C outfit Pro Patri. The 20yo signed a 12-month extension to his contract before departing to Milan last Summer, but his head has obviously been turned by the amount of media interest he has received since.

    According to his agent, Graziano Battistini, it would be Caprile's dream to play for Napoli:-

    “Elia is part of an important club like Leeds. We will discuss (his future) with the club at the end of the season. We have not spoken with (Napoli director Cristiano) Giuntoli. Definitely, playing at Napoli is the boy’s dream but it is useless to cause a fuss. “Elia is at Leeds, which is a great club. They are not well placed in the table. In the case of relegation, all the scenarios change.”

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    Don't rush Bamford back to starting line up

    Former player, now pundit Alan Hutton believes Jesse Marsch should not rush Patrick Bamford back into the Leeds starting line up for the remainder of the season. The former Villa defender was speaking on Sky Sports, when the subject of the Leeds talisman came up.

    Hutton believes that Bamford will have a lot more impact, coming on as a second half substitute with 15-20 minutes left. The 28yo has netted twice, and has been credited with two assists in 560 minutes of game time this season. He has missed almost 30 games this campaign with various injuries.

    “I just think don’t rush it. With everything that he’s gone through, everything that’s happened this season, you’ve got four games left. “I understand that having a fully fit Bamford who’s firing would help you, there’s no doubt about that. Can he come on and affect games, if he’s fit and ready, for maybe the last 15, 20 minutes?

    “I think that’s probably the part that he will play moving forward. It will be very difficult just to throw him in at this level, against the teams they’re coming up against. “I think if you can get an impact sub out of him, I think that would do him the world of good.”

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    #1
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  2. wakeybreakyheart

    wakeybreakyheart Well-Known Member

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    Good morning one minute hay is writing a book about bielsa. Then suddenly hay knows nothing and is the anti christ (or is that me!).
    Rads as chairman is doing a fine job all on his own of destroying his reputation with Leeds supporters.
    I have decided to give you all a holiday..... Well actually that's me. Corfu bound out of Manc at 06:50 and no phoning the airport to report scares you lot. Weather report says rain friday but also 70 degrees so what do i care. Been told hotel owner has sports channels so if anyone asks for another game it's fight time.
     
    #2
  3. FORZA LEEDS

    FORZA LEEDS Well-Known Member

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    Have a great time Wakey. Arsenal vs Leeds is the main match on Sunday so you’ll definitely get to see it.

    And we’ll get at least a draw.
     
    #3
  4. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Morning all

    Loads went wrong this season we can all point fingers and many of us will point in different directions. We can’t change any of it, let’s hope moving forward we come out the other side playing PL football next season
     
    #4
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  5. Eireleeds1

    Eireleeds1 Well-Known Member

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    Have a good one Wakey.See you for a pint or three on your return. Sun will be shining again over Elland Road
     
    #5
  6. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    Phil Hay, Mr Righteous, just another gutter journalist. As Wakey rightly says Hay kissed Bielsa’s arse all the tume he was here. Now saying Bielsa was wrong and Hay was right all along. These words never got from his pen to print once because he was falling over himself every week telling us just how brilliant Bielsa was. Hay is also upset that he gets no info out if the club and is usually the last to know whats going on. Radz already marked his card over Hays speculation of a 49ers impending takeover. Radz or someone will now go after the jock gobshyte
     
    #6
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  7. Gessa

    Gessa Well-Known Member

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    I personally don't think blame can be pointed in any one direction, everyone involved has to shoulder some responsibility.
     
    #7
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  8. ellandback

    ellandback Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Safe trip, hope you avoid the anal probe at customs!!!
     
    #8
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  9. milkyboy

    milkyboy Well-Known Member

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    whatever people may think about Phil hay,
    Is the article saying that? It’s saying bielsa had pretty much dictatorial control. So he gets credit when it works which it clearly did.. and has to take some flak when it doesn’t… which it clearly hadn’t this year.

    He’s also saying the board has to take responsibility for not acting - in some way - in January.

    what’s so controversial about that ? Bielsa wanted a project and he walks from projects where he doesn’t control the length of the grass, the parking spaces etc. it’s to the board’s credit that they let him have free reign, because that was how to get the best out of bielsa.

    everybody’s happy when it’s working.

    but when it goes tits up?
     
    #9
  10. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    Not often I criticise Bielsa but I think Winks would have been an ideal replacement for KP when injured and suspect VDB would have been an upgrade on Klich as an attacking mid.
     
    #10
  11. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    Enjoy yourself Victor and put plenty of sun screen on your pecker.:emoticon-0136-giggl
     
    #11
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  12. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    Wakey did the same as Hay regarding Bielsa.:emoticon-0105-wink:
     
    #12
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  13. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think he goes away so much:grin:
     
    #13
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  14. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    I don't like Hay, but I had a run in with the twat ages ago on Twatter.<ok>
     
    #14
  15. Eireleeds1

    Eireleeds1 Well-Known Member

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    Good read this. Phil hay haters look away
    Marcelo Bielsa, for all his conviction, was never a man of hubris. He locked into his ideas and he believed in them to his last breath at Leeds United — but his conviction never strayed into over-confidence. On the contrary, the long hours of training and the rabbit holes of analysis were the mark of a coach forever wary of thinking he had it cracked.

    Paul Warne, the manager at third-tier Yorkshire neighbours Rotherham United, used to look at Bielsa on his stool by the dugout and equate his serene poise with total faith in the outcome of a game but the Argentinian used intense work to suppress his own doubts. His impact could feel as effortless as a click of the fingers until you got up close and watched him cracking the whip, allowing people to cut corners over his dead body.

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    Marcelo Bielsa scrutinises his last match in charge of Leeds in February (Photo: Robbie Jay Barratt – AMA/Getty Images)
    There was no holiday for him last summer, and when the post-mortem is written for this season, post-survival or relegation depending on how the next few weeks from hell work out, the most half-witted conclusion would be to say that Bielsa assumed Leeds would walk 2021-22. He did not even assume that he would walk it, which is why he enlisted staff at the club to put him through a personal fitness programme and improve his physique for another year of all-in, austere living, as hard as any other.

    But here Leeds are with Bielsa gone, their backs against the wall and no better odds of side-stepping the Championship than the toss of a coin. Heads you stay up, tails you face the music and either way, nobody is going to thank the club for the past nine months.

    Those of us who thought Leeds would have enough this season are relying on four games to edge that argument by a whisker. Those who thought Leeds were bringing knives to a gunfight have, quite honestly, been proven right already. Second-season syndrome does not look the same from club to club, but Leeds have suffered their version of it — blown out of the water they were calmly floating in a year ago.

    It would be convenient to hang the regression around the neck of one person or blame one factor but the failings have been broad. There are so many ways in which Leeds have gone wrong: tactically; in the calibre of their recruitment; in keeping their players fit; in carrying an adequate size of squad and in projecting the image of a club where life is under control. Draw it all together and the bones of a crisis stick out, an accumulation of pressure which can easily bury you.

    Perhaps people other than Bielsa felt a touch of hubris after the ease of last season, their first back among the elite at last, or began to think that the march was unstoppable. Perhaps Leeds’ faith in the process strayed too close to complacency, though at board level they would regularly talk about the fact that, statistically, relegation in a club’s second year after promotion was as much of a threat as it was in their first. Nobody in the corridors at Elland Road thought this was coming, their fate staked on the final four games.

    Faith is probably the best place to start. When Leeds began signing players in their first transfer window after promotion, they were purposely embarking on a two-year project, building a squad that, in their estimation, would see them safely through last season and this one. It was a vote of confidence not only in those new arrivals but in the existing group of players, those who had launched Bielsa’s project and found a way to master the Championship.

    Leeds were backing not only their judgement in the market but the durability of the promotion squad and the capacity of existing faces to improve further as the standard got better. Bielsa was happy to stand by them and built his plan around them. Year one back in the Premier League was unimaginably comfortable but year two has pushed the envelope too far, exposing limits and making Leeds look like a squad stuck in a sluggish transition.

    Investment is where criticism often focuses but the root of the club’s deceleration is not investment per se. Leeds have spent on transfers since promotion — more than enough, Bielsa would always say — and they have not used outgoing deals to prop up their expenditure. The problem has been the impact of that investment, particularly for a club who like to tell themselves that they have a good handle on the transfer market. The money paid out since promotion has not resulted in permanent elevation.

    Robin Koch, at £13 million, still feels like an unknown quantity at centre-back, infrequently seen in his best position. Diego Llorente is a known quantity in the sense that you can expect him to be unpredictable. No argument at all with the deal for Raphinha but Rodrigo, even now, is trying to find himself and neither Junior Firpo nor Dan James has made a material difference in transforming the team. It says something that for all the expenditure, last season’s player of the year was Stuart Dallas. And that when this season finishes, Dallas’ claim to the same award for 2021-22 will be stronger than most.

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    Dan James has not yet made the impact many hoped with Leeds (Photo: Clive Mason/Getty Images)
    From the end of last season, first-team recruitment began to feel strangled. There was no new central midfielder in the summer window — no options to turn to or satisfactory for Bielsa once Chelsea’s Conor Gallagher chose Crystal Palace as his next loan destination and Lewis O’Brien of Huddersfield Town was deemed too expensive — and nothing at all in January after Red Bull Salzburg knocked back two offers for Brenden Aaronson.

    There was internal frustration at Bielsa’s refusal to take alternative midfielders, such as Donny van de Beek of Manchester United or Harry Winks from Tottenham, but January was a gamble, an inactive month that took the chance that Leeds would have enough to get by, despite an injury list which meant, week to week, they barely had enough bodies to fill their bench. Injuries and a small squad, burning oil and water, the loss of continuity and match-winners and no sign of it improving quickly. That window more than any other is where inaction was most dangerous.

    Who is to blame for that? It is not in dispute that Bielsa approved the signings made by Leeds and set tight parameters for the type of players he wanted. He was never forced to take signings he did not want or did not rate. The club were hands-off in that respect, in the same way that they refused to dictate or interfere with Bielsa’s training routine. Autonomy was what underpinned Bielsa’s peak years and the relationship would not have worked if Leeds had not been prepared to let him manage as he saw fit.

    So much about this season has been wrong, though, and it is not a great defence for the board to say that when results began to cause concern and the dressing room looked bare, they left the tail to wag the dog. Leeds were telling themselves they would be OK in January and saying so publicly, only to sack Bielsa a month later. For too long, there was inertia on all sides, a reluctance to bite the bullet, do what had to be done and consider positive change, on the field or off it. Hindsight reveals so many junctures where the club and Bielsa could have helped themselves.

    Change manifested itself in Bielsa’s dismissal, making way for Jesse Marsch’s appointment. The short-term wisdom of that decision was always results-dependent. Survival will allow Leeds to feel vindicated, convinced as they were that the squad had hit the wall physically and form would not turn for the better without a new coach. Relegation will fuel the opinion that they might as well have allowed Bielsa to see the remaining games through, even if it was true that Leeds had never been more tactically vulnerable under him than this season.

    In the meantime, the under-23s have been collateral damage, still not clear of relegation from the Premier League 2 top flight after completing long parts of the year with their best performers seconded to a weakened first-team squad. The senior players at Leeds posted exceptionally high physical stats in pre-season, data that promised much, but everyone misjudged the robustness of the camp. It is also doubtful that anyone clocked the extreme effect the loss of key players to injuries would have on form. Owing to the departures of Pablo Hernandez, Gaetano Berardi and Gjanni Alioski, Leeds were down on numbers from the start.

    The upshot is this four-game shootout, starting away to Arsenal on Sunday, in which Leeds either turn it on or go down. Either way, acknowledgement of the causes of the tightrope walk will be needed from the top. Whatever part he played in the decline, Bielsa paid with his job and Leeds will not get far by making the narrative solely about him — not least because his first three seasons gave them the platform they craved when Andrea Radrizzani, Victor Orta and Angus Kinnear first reached out to him in Argentina.

    To do so would ignore where ultimate responsibility at a football club lies and ignore the reality of where the buck stops.

    The lessons are plentiful and, sadly, fairly glaring.

    All that remains is the anxious hope that Leeds, as a Premier League entity, will live to fight another day.
     
    #15
  16. wakeybreakyheart

    wakeybreakyheart Well-Known Member

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    Victor is not coming <laugh><laugh><laugh>
     
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  17. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    <laugh> you will be hopefully.<whistle>
     
    #17
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  18. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    The problem milky is ts. We have all been saying the exact same thing for the last 18 months. Right back to not replacing Pablo or Cuisance. Yet Hay has said nothing until now. I listen every week to his podcast and no mention of all this stuff until now, no mention of overtraining until Marsch mentioned it, then the whole media jumped in. I prefer journalists to tell me news and things they discovered that dont seem right. But to say zero l he needs a story…..
     
    #18
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  19. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    Becareful Doc or you could be branded a hay hater :emoticon-0105-wink:
     
    #19
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  20. wakeybreakyheart

    wakeybreakyheart Well-Known Member

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    It will be tits up on them sunbeds tomorrow
     
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