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The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 6th April)

Discussion in 'Leeds United' started by ellandback, Apr 6, 2022.

  1. 2020VisionofLeeds

    2020VisionofLeeds Well-Known Member

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    And me
     
    #61
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  2. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    <ok>
     
    #62
  3. Aski

    Aski Well-Known Member

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    Where do you get those figures from Ristac.

    I only ask because whoscored.com provides totally different statistics to what you are stating.

    For those who hate reading long posts filled with stats, then as always I've put that info into spoilers, so you can ignore if you so wish ;)

    Aston Villa Game- Harrison only attempted a total of 22 passes (so not sure how he gave the ball away 23 times), 10 of those were unsuccessful (just over 54% pass accuracy) and he had 5 bad touches. Going by WS stats, he was the worst player that game for us. Harrison touched the ball 38 times, and I've accounted for 37 of those.

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...nd-Premier-League-2021-2022-Leeds-Aston-Villa


    Brentford Game - Harrison made a total of 49 passes, 13 were unsuccessful ( pass accuracy of over 73.5%), and 1 bad touch. Same game Raphina had a pass accuracy of 73.9% but made less passes (only 38 attempted). If we go by ratings, he was bang on average

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...land-Premier-League-2021-2022-Leeds-Brentford




    Now I presumed that you meant the Leicester game, instead of the Brentford game, given the selection of fixtures,

    In this game only Meslier, Koch, Forshaw and James were more accurate with their passing than Harrison. Raphinha and Klich only achieved a 75% success pass rate, and Rodrigo didnt even achieve a 70% success rate. Harrison was given the highest rating for us in that game.

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...land-Premier-League-2021-2022-Leicester-Leeds


    Spurs game - Harrison attempted 21 passes, 12 were successful ( so only a 57.7% success rate, Raphinha managed a 67% success with his passes) and lost control of the ball twice. He got an average rating for that game, however no one in our team performed well in that match, with only Meslier achieving a rating over 7. 6 Players were awarded ratings of under 6, Harrison wasn't one of those players, he was rated higher than 6 (although only just).

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...land-Premier-League-2021-2022-Leeds-Tottenham



    Norwich - 17 passes made , 10 successful (so success rate of 58.8%, worst in the team that day). Loss control of the ball on 5 occasions. Made 4 successful tackles.
    (Note the passing accuracy is worse than what you are quoting, however WS are stating that he did win tackles). Only Bamford, Koch and James received a lower overall rating than Harrison in that game.

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ngland-Premier-League-2021-2022-Leeds-Norwich


    Now lets look at our last two games, given that for some reason, you didnt quote those

    Wolves - 31 passes attempted, 19 successful ( so accuracy of 61.3%, Dan James got a pass accuracy of 69%, but only attempted 13 passes, so only succeeded with 9). 2 poor touches, 1 successful tackle and 2 interceptions. Because of the goal, only Ayling achieved a higher match rating (he also scored)

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...eague-2021-2022-Wolverhampton-Wanderers-Leeds



    Southampton - 29 passes attempted, 20 were successful (around 69%). For comparison Raphinha attempted 42 passes, and 28 were successful, so approx 66% pass completion. Harrison failed to control the ball twice (Raphinha failed 4 times). Both players made 2 key passes, Raphinha made 1 dribble and Harrison was dispossessed once. Both made 1 successful tackle each, Harrison made 2 clearances. Raph managed to cross the ball 4 times, compared to Harrison only putting in 2 crosses. Despite scoring Harrison was only the 5th highest rated player in the team, so without the goal, he would have been towards the lower end of the team ratings.

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...nd-Premier-League-2021-2022-Leeds-Southampton


    So there is some dispute between the figures that you have gathered and the ones on Who Scored. Given that on other occasions when I've looked at various sites to compare stats, none ever seem to mirror up, it isnt a surprise that the figures don't correspond, but there does appear to be a high level of discrepancy between the figures in your post and the ones on the WS site, so I would be interested in seeing where those were compiled from, as maybe that site provides a more detailed picture than WS.

    The biggest issue with Harrison ( and to be honest most of our first team squad) is that at time they can be infuriating. We have our consistent unspectacular players who will get a consistent 6/7 rating for most games, but will hardly ever trouble the higher 8 ratings or the lower 5's. Our more flair or attack minded players are inconsistent. On a good day they are excellent, on an average day they will look worse than our unspectacular players, and on a poor day they are very poor.

    To get those more consistent attack minded players, we need to be able to compete financially, which at present we are unable to do so, so for the most part our first 11 will consist primarily of average PL players at best (with one or two exceptions). Because of how our season has gone (for which ever reason you subscribe to) the deficiencies within the team as a whole have been highlighted more.

    Given that Elland has been going on about Ward Prowse when you look at the basic stats for this season and last season, Ward Prowse has played just under 6000 minutes of premier league football, scored 15 goals and got 11 assists and earned Man of the Match on 5 occasions, and has an average match rating of 7.1.

    In the same period, Harrison has played just under 5000 minutes of Premier League Football (so approximately 11 games less than Ward Prowse), scored 14 goals in the Premier League and got 9 assists. Harrison has also got 5 Man of the Match awards and has an average rating of 6.8.
     
    #63
  4. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo Carlos

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    As much as I'd like Everton and Lampard to go down I think we have to hope for Burnley to lose tonight.
     
    #64
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  5. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    This old chestnut again. Sigh!

    By the very nature of the position he plays, Harrison, or any winger for that matter, will be trying to create goal-scoring opportunities, & taking risks in doing so. This means that passes don't always find their targets, & balls are lost in this same process. CBs, for example would happily spend the day passing it between the back 4 with comparatively very little risk at all. But the same mechanism is used to measure both, making CBs better at passing or not giving the ball away than wingers - or so the stats say.

    Simplified, yes, but fundamentally a flawed basis to attack Harrison. Indeed, shows he was working his arse off in order to make so many mistakes. Oddly enough, you don't provide similar stats from the other winger in these games for comparison. You might be surprised.
     
    #65
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  6. ristac

    ristac Well-Known Member
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    https://www.sofascore.com/aston-villa-leeds-united/JsP This is who the articles mainly refer to, below the articles and they’re regularly used by MSN Sport. In regards to Sofascore and accuracy;
    https://www.sofascore.com/news/sofascore-player-ratings/?amp=1

    https://www.footballfancast.com/lee...bielsa-squad-villa-premier-league-opinion/amp

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/foo...ing-possession-a-whopping-23-times/ar-AATFzew

    In regards to the last two games, it wasn’t a case of ignoring, Harrison has the odd decent game but he has more poor ones, also me plucking out some quick stats has to be taken in context with my reply to Milkyboy….

    Milky said “But seems if they don’t top the pl goals and assists charts they aren’t pl standard for some.”… MY Opinion of Harrison has nothing to do with not topping a chart, it’s down to what I see as too many poor performances
     
    #66
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  7. FORZA LEEDS

    FORZA LEEDS Well-Known Member

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    On the whole, Harrison has been a great player for Leeds, and the criticism of him is unwarranted imo.
     
    #67
  8. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    Looking at Evertons fixtues I can't see them picking up too many points. Personally I'd love to see both burnley and everton go down, especially everton because I still remember them getting a 3.3 draw against wimbledon which saved them.<ok>
     
    #68
  9. wakeybreakyheart

    wakeybreakyheart Well-Known Member

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    You used to call him Hilda cos he never tacled and was a pushover.
     
    #69
  10. Old Git

    Old Git Well-Known Member

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    Burnley 1 up.
     
    #70
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  11. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    Burnley one up<ok>
     
    #71
  12. Whitejock

    Whitejock Well-Known Member

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    You almost got it right. Helda when playing well, Hilda when not. Agree though that it was most often Hilda.

    Still better than Roberts. So are you! :D
     
    #72
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  13. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo Carlos

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    Peno Everton

    1-1

    Good game this.
     
    #73
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  14. Eireleeds1

    Eireleeds1 Well-Known Member

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    Penalty to Everton
     
    #74
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  15. Irishshako

    Irishshako Well-Known Member

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    Peno Everton<yikes>
     
    #75
  16. stonkin

    stonkin Well-Known Member

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    1-1
     
    #76
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  17. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo Carlos

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    If Burnley go down and we stay up I'd happily take Taylor, Pope, Weghorst and Cornet.
     
    #77
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  18. stonkin

    stonkin Well-Known Member

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    I'd settle for the table looking like this after tonight

    upload_2022-4-6_19-57-52.png
     
    #78
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  19. NostradEmus

    NostradEmus Firpo Carlos

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    Peno Everton.

    1-2.
     
    #79
  20. Leedsoflondon

    Leedsoflondon Well-Known Member

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    Why, they would have taken them down?
     
    #80

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