Ethnic Russians then if we are back to being pedantic. Adding also that war crimes can be committed on POWs
You're being very naive.....only the losers of a war commit war crimes....the victors are able to rewrite the history books to absolve themselves
All such crimes should be investigated. The problem is, once one takes place, you get into tit for tat and terrible things happen. But guess what? None of it would have taken place if Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine, starting in 2014 with Crimea.
Guess what....Ukrainians were carrying out attacks on ethnic Russians before that.....it doesn't absolve either side of their crimes, but to put the blame solely on one event is incorrect. Russians have been killing Ukrainians for centuries, and Ukrainians have been killing Russians for just as long. Let's not keep going round in circles on this one again
Tommeh on the scrounge again after Mexico telling him to get the **** out of their country. Having a bit of a cry and moaning about his poor kids getting caught up in all this. Do I feel for his kids of course, but Tommeh has done this to them, he’s got quite the extensive record for starters, thought he was all for stopping criminals getting into countries
There were political differences between Ukranian nationalists and ethnic Russians prior to 2014, mainly involving use and teaching of the Russian language. Russia was in breach of international law by invading Crimea and there's a UN resolution in 2014 supported by 100 member states that establishes that. Putin wanted access to The Black Sea.
Whose side would you have chosen prior to 2014 Goldie ? Ukrainian Nationalists or ethnic Russians…..take your pick ?
Before 2014, there was no major dispute. Sure, there were bad tempered exchanges between a small minority of Ukranian nationalists and pro Russian elements particularly in Donetsk and Luhansk involving the Russian language, but most Ukranians were in favour of Russian being taught in schools and there is no evidence of ethnic Russians being a persecuted minority. Then in 2014, the ethnic Russians, with the strong backing of Mother Russia, turned the dispute into armed conflict. Ukraine mounted a counter offensive, and, to plan, Russia moved into Crimea.
Ah so you’ve chosen your side…..right oh. Ethnic conflict is oh so simple, eh ? We should get you to sort out Ireland, Israel and Syria next.
Seems that the Russians have put hundreds of civilians into mass graves. If this is true, I'm not finding it particularly difficult to choose a side.
What do you think of the video circulating of an ethnic Russian being stabbed in the head and brutally murdered for fun ? Or the video of Russian POWs being beaten, abused and shot in the legs for fun…….is that all acceptable in the circumstances ? What do you think of the beheadings of ethnic Russians in the Donbass before the invasion ? The killing of 100s of children by Ukrainian fascist militia by indiscriminate shelling ? Is it all really that simplistic ? Can we really look at history and conflict “in the moment” and pick a side ? For me NOT to pick a side, I’m sure in your eyes it makes me a Putin apologist…however I’m sticking by my beliefs…..there ain’t no good guys
That's simply Whataboutery, Stainsey. Each conflict has its own unique set of facts. I find it no more difficult taking sides over what Putin is doing in Ukraine, than I would have done when Adolph Hitler invaded Poland in 1939. From memory, you would not have taken sides when the Nazis invaded Poland, so I can see why taking sides would trouble you now.
Ah the classic……”That’s whataboutery”. Totally expected by your good self and often used when others want to look at historical context of conflict. So what you’re saying is that we can only look at history in the context of “right now”, with no nod to previous goings on in the slightest….and if you do, you get accused of “whataboutery”:? Sorry Goldie it’s a very blinkered view…….and again, yet again as you don’t seem to get it, it’s not about “taking sides” against anyone, be it Hitlers Nazis, Russian separatists or Francos fascists…It’s about acknowledging historical facts and context in every single conflict. Something you and your kind sadly find very difficult to do.
? My "whataboutery" comment had nothing to do with history. You raised several completely different conflicts - Ireland, Israel, Syria. These have to be judged on their own facts. However, if you want to look at the recent history of conflict in Ukraine, after the fall of the Soviet Union in the early 1990's and the independence of Ukraine, there were squabbles in Ukraine over attachment to Russia or attachment to the West, which manifested themselves largely in disagreements in the use and teaching of the Russian language. Most of the Ukrainian population was relaxed and in favour of the status quo, and there was no significant violence against the person by Ukrainians or ethnic Russians, until Russia sent its soldiers in plain uniforms into the Donbas to foment unrest. This was the precursor to taking Crimea in 2014, and the full scale invasion that we are seeing now. Russian is the aggressor, just as Nazi Germany was the aggressor when it marched into Poland in 1939.
And a view most of the rest of the world agrees with it. As a reminder, I41 UN members voted in favour of a resolution to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and 5 (including Belarus, North Korea and Syria) voted against it.
Stick to whatever you like mate. As Goldie points out, you take your arguments to ridiculous limits, so much so, that you can't bring yourself to even condemn the Nazis. That's your right and opinion. Of course there are evil people on all sides, everywhere. Most people don't seem to have a problem with condemning all atrocities on all sides, me included, whilst finding it relatively easy to be on the side of Ukraine and the innocent men, women and children being slaughtered because Putin decided to invade. Furthermore, it now seems that many Russian troops are carrying out murder and rape on a large scale, which doesn't suggest they are innocent pawns in Putin's plans either. We're going over old ground, but, in my opinion, you conflate many different issues in order to maintain your stance of defending everyone and blaming no one. That's your right. Most people seem to completely disagree with you. I presume you would have been a conscientious objector during WW2?
With respect Col, and precisely what I’m pointing out, is that people like you are completely unable to look at the wrong doings of either side and seem to have to “pick a side of good, and a side of evil”….it’s human nature I guess. Avoid and overlook the wrongdoings of “our side”, but concentrate on the wrong doings of the “other side……like a game of football , eh ? At no time, however much you seem to imply, have I ever said the Russia and it’s forces are the “good side”…clearly they are not. However what I’m saying is that neither is Ukraine…..and appalling atrocities are going in out there being perpetrated by BOTH sides….and to overlook that is plainly wrong in my view, however disagreeable the majority find it. And your statement about me even failing to “condemn the Nazis” is plainly ludicrous and not what I said whatsoever……but I guess you know that and it was said simply to make your point. If of course you took what I said out of context then up to you mate….if it suits your agenda. And in your last point, you could very well be presuming correctly….but then again I’d be presuming that you might be the one sending me a white feather. As you say, we’re going over old ground
I clearly didn't "overlook the wrong doings of our side". Why would you say that when I pointedly said there are evil people on all sides? I think what you said was that you wouldn't call the Nazis the bad guys and pick a side against them. And why do you always have to say "people like you", just because someone has a different opinion to you? I find your opinions on this impossible to fathom, as do it seems, most of the world. As I would if you refused to fight the Nazis back in 1939. I suspect you prefer it that way, being able to point out that everyone's missing the points that you know all about. I'll leave you to your crusade mate.
