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WAR! What is it good for?

Discussion in 'The Premier League' started by Treble, Feb 11, 2022.

  1. Gessa

    Gessa Well-Known Member

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    Respect to the Moscovites.

     
    #821
  2. Milk..

    Milk.. Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, so what's next. Putin cares deeply about his legacy (he has historians privately employed just to study how his legacy will be remembered). He had a big ego... And despite the inevitability of a Russian victory, the damages and losses will go down as a black mark on his legacy with the Russian people.

    He will want another "Chechnya" or Georgia, or Crimea. Moldova is the obvious target once Ukraine is made a puppet state. But who knows where he will look next. Putin obviously doesn't want a war with the west, that won't go well with anyone.

    The danger is if Putin picks a target that he thinks the West won't care about but the West draw a line in the sand and Putin thinks they're bluffing.

    Ukraine won't start WWII but wherever Putin goes next to try and repair his reputation domestically could have a slight chance of triggering a major international conflict. Can Putin repair his ego before he pushes the rest of the world too far?
     
    #822
  3. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    The real problem for Putin and Russia, is that no matter which way this goes - especially if he ends up taking any part of Ukraine, ALL the sanctions and isolation and pariah status will remain for the long term.

    There's no coming back from this unless he loses and even then I expect the West will push hard to have him accept a whole raft of demilitarisation around the region before they start taking away the global isolation being meted out.

    That may even include withdrawal from Crimea.
     
    #823
  4. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    It sounds like the Russians are upping the pressure, now. Rockets are being fired indiscriminately over a few major cities.

    I have no idea how this ends. Even if/when the Russians take Kiev, that will just drive the Ukrainians under ground. They'll be sleeper cells all over the place and they'll always be about to keep attacking the invaders.
     
    #824
  5. Milk..

    Milk.. Well-Known Member

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    There's no chance he will lose. He will take the east, and he will install a puppet government in the west.

    He hasn't really employed any of his most deadly weapons yet. He's hoping to win without causing so much destruction that his planned puppet government doesn't stand a chance to stand without permeant occupation. The more damage he causes the more the people of Ukraine will try to throw off the inevitable yoke.

    Eventually he will grow weary of fighting a conventional land war and release the full extent of electronic, rocketry, sea, and air power that he's holding back. There will be much destruction and the world will look on in even more horror than they are now.
     
    #825
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  6. Milk..

    Milk.. Well-Known Member

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    I suspect Putin also doesn't want the west to see exactly how his more advanced weapons work.

    For example if he used his electromagnetic weapons that supposedly wipe out computers, phones, radios and other sensitive electronics in an area, the west could use that data to figure out what works best in shielding their sensitive electronics. Or conversely, if it doesn't work well, Putin loses some of his fear factor.
     
    #826
  7. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    I posted similar yesterday <ok>

    I agree, but I think he's massively miscalculated this time. I don't think the Ukrainians will ever accept any puppet government and neither will the rest of the world. And as I posted above I think Russia is fcked economically in the long run.

    There are plenty of strategically astute people in the West who will bend him over and fck him hard as a condition to drop any sanctions now they have most of the world on their side. He could end up having to give up all his gains in other parts of the region.

    What's worrying is that I can see all this leading to two camps. The first will involve Russia being driven towards China and that's one side. Then you have NATO and their allies in the world on the other.
     
    #827
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  8. Milk..

    Milk.. Well-Known Member

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    Too lazy to look back, but I assume Finland and Sweden's new desire to finally join NATO has been discussed on here.

    I should think any country in Europe not already a member of NATO or under Russia's direct influence will be more encouraged to join NATO now than ever before. In that regard Putin has shot himself in the foot.

    If you're geographically near Russia, don't have nukes and not in NATO you have to be pretty worried about Russia now.
     
    #828
  9. Saf

    Saf Not606 Godfather+NOT606 Poster of the year 2023

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    #829
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  10. duggie2000

    duggie2000 Well-Known Member

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    upload_2022-2-28_16-15-1.jpeg
     
    #830
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  11. duggie2000

    duggie2000 Well-Known Member

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    She looks as tho she has had a stroke
     
    #831
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  12. brb

    brb CR250

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    I personally want to see one of them serve Putin a bullet, but I've been saying the same about Blair for years. Seems these people are immune to being terrorist targets.
     
    #832
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  13. Milk..

    Milk.. Well-Known Member

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    Plan an assassination in UK. Go to jail. Plan an assassination in Russia be killed quietly with no trial.
     
    #833
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  14. duggie2000

    duggie2000 Well-Known Member

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    They are the icons for terrorists by their actions
     
    #834
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  15. brb

    brb CR250

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    People have given their lives for less.
     
    #835
  16. brb

    brb CR250

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    Though I condemn Putin's actions, I think she is right in calling the Americans, Europe and Nato out on it. Much of which I highlighted many pages ago before Putin went on his mad invasion.
     
    #836
  17. SaintsForTheWin

    SaintsForTheWin Any holes a goal

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    I love how the far left see it as eastward expansion. Those nations in the eastern area of Europe are requesting to join, and as sovereign nations they have a right to do so. Maybe it could have been handled better in hindsight but it hasn’t been.

    Abbot is justifying Russia’s invasion. How anyone can vote for that complete tard is beyond me.
     
    #837
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  18. Milk..

    Milk.. Well-Known Member

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    China's role has been interesting to watch. It's clear they disapprove of anyone taking territory from anyone else (unless they're the ones doing it).

    They're walking a tight-rope here. Russia is really the only other big country who isn't low-key hostile to China. The two big eastern wannabe-Empires are having to prop each other up to not be isolated, but I think China is secretly pissed at Russia.
     
    #838
  19. Milk..

    Milk.. Well-Known Member

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    If I were a nation in Eastern Europe, I sure as hell would want to join.

    Putin hasn't messed with Poland or Baltic states yet. He's meddled with Russia's other former subject states. Eastern Europe has a choice, join NATO and be low-key pushed around by the US or let Russia make you it's bitch.

    Fully understand why Russia doesn't like the Eastward expansion but it's in both NATO and Eastern Europe's best Interest that they join.
     
    #839
  20. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    I really don't think she is tbh. That recording including that of Corbyn were recorded before the invasion. I thought her opinion was balanced, not siding with anyone but trying to express Russia's concerns - many of which were expressed by plenty on here before the invasion. It doesn't help when we vilify people for expressing an alternative view which tbf was trying to head off conflict not accelerate it.
     
    #840
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