I'm well aware the invasion is happening and I was the one who posted that that video you're talking about on here. But in regards to the politics of it all, I don't think Russia is the only guilty party in all this. Ukraine joining Nato would be of massive detriment to Russia, and he doesn't want his competition to be right on his doorstep controlling such a massive cash cow. Ukraine is of great strategic importance to whoever manages to eventually influence it, Russia or the West. Regardless of Ethics, Russia will protect it's interests. Russia is no worse than the US.
politics is open to interpretation I grant you. It was when Hitler invaded the Sudetenland, annexed Austria and invaded Poland… An illegal occupation and kids and innocents being murdered by rabid stormtroopers on the orders of their boss isn’t. There is zero analogy or logical explanation. It’s tyrannical mass murder of the innocents. no grey areas. No debate. Hard Cold ****ing facts mate. just my humble opinion…. ..you can tell I’m pissed off with that boss eyed dwarf ****.
This is easy peesy lemmon squeezy. Putin arranges to meet Ukraine leader in an neutral embassy in Kiev. Rather than Ukraine leaders he meets with a Saudi Peace keeping force, and is never seen again. Peace in the world and MBS comes out with the Nobel peace prize and good will from all. Happy days.
As I’ve said recently Ukraine is an independent country. What Russia do or don’t want. Or how good or bad Russia, NATO or the USA are is totally irrelevant. It’s what Ukraine wants is the only relevant issue. And Ukraine doesn’t want Russian soldiers invading its country. Therefore, it’s important for the rest of the World to stand up for Ukraine. I know they all won’t because of self interest but we should. We being the UK. Once the bully boys (country wise) sense they can get away with whatever they want then that’s the start of the slippery slope.
Just LOL. You think that the likes of the US give two ****s about the independence of Ukraine? No. If Ukraine joins Nato that benefits the US, and threatens Russia. The reality is whoever's side Ukraine chooses will become much stronger, and the opposition will be significantly decremented. Russia does not want the US to be close to it's borders. The US and Russia are no better than each other. It's about power and control of the chess board. Simple as. Power and survival strategy will come first over morality.
In many ways you are correct Tash. I don't believe the US cares particularly about foreign countries, except as to how they may affect the US. The same could be said of the UK. It is like a game of chess in that regard. However, the pieces in this chess game are free individual countries. They get to choose what side they play on, and no amount of the other side saying it isn't fair should make the slightest iota of a difference.
Yeah, but Russia are the ones blowing **** up. Stfu Tash fore you make me mad on this fine sunny Norwegian day
Where did I say I thought the USA cares about Ukraine’s independence? Where did I say the USA was any better than Russia? It helps if you read what I write before responding.
LOL. I read what you said perfectly fine. But the problem is you're mentioning the morality of allowing a country to do what it wants as if it's all that matters, and making what Nato or Russia wants "totally irrelevant". I'm questioning what reality you live in where you think it's going to be as simple as that. You think you can just factor out the interests of powerful countries from this equation? The reason why I mentioned USA and Russia is because you did, and their interests need to be taken into consideration because it's bound to impact the situation. The power struggle between super powers is always going to matter, and what decisions Ukraine decides to make effects Russia and America. I read perfectly fine what you said, but you're living in a fantasy world where it's as simple as "just let everyone live freely and do what they want without their own lives". I really, really wish it was as simple as that. But countries have to protect their own interests, Russia included. If Ukraine decides to join Nato with it's free choice, then do you expect Russia to be like "yep, you go ahead brah, it's your free choice" How the **** can you just factor out Russian and American interest out of this picture? What planet do you live on?
What Trev said was perfectly correct. It is Ukraine's free choice what organisations they join and Russia has absolutely no right to invade because of it. Equally, if the Irish suddenly went full potato and voted in a communist regime that wanted to align itself to Russia there would be **** all we could do about it. We wouldn't like it, but we would have no justification for invading them.
Unfortunately in order to maintain the survival of a country, it's interests need to be taken into consideration. If it detriments the likes of Russia or the US what Ukraine does, too significantly, you can't just expect either side to just accept that and let that happen. If you cannot afford another country siding with your enemy, and you have the power to do it, you're going to stop it. You deny others freedom because sometimes you cannot afford for them to have it. People take their freedom purely for granted these days and treat it like a birth right that's just there. You only have as much freedom as your environment allows.
Unfortunately this is escalating to real scary levels. Kiev have given 18k machine guns to locals who want to defend the city. They are also encouraging them to make Molotov’s. Meanwhile Putin has actually asked the Ukraine military to over throw their own government. This is ****ing nuts man!
Putin says: "They are acting like terrorists across the world, shielding behind people in order to accuse Russia of causing casualties among the peaceful population. "It is known for sure that all this is happening on recommendations from foreign consultants, American advisers above all." He then addresses Ukrainian forces. "I am addressing Ukrainian armed forces servicemen once again: do not allow neo-Nazis and Banderites to use your children, your wives and the elderly as a human shield. "Take power into your own hands. It looks like you and us will find it easier to reach an agreement than with that gang of drug addicts and neo-Nazis in Kyiv."
Except that doesn't play out in history. When Cuba aligned with Russia (right on the United States' doorstep) they didn't invade Cuba. They did help some Cuban exiles to attempt an invasion in the failed Bay of Pigs invasion, but they never invaded themselves. They could have, and would almost certainly have won, but they didn't. They set up severe sanctions but they didn't invade. There is no justification for what is taking place in Ukraine.
