Off Topic Politics Thread

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In case there was any question of their limited aims here, Russian artillery is shelling Kiev, and Putin is talking about "denazifying" Ukraine (whose President is Jewish). Russia intends to occupy the country.
 
Ian Thumwood said:
I am not surprised by Putin's assault of Ukraine but wish the West would keep their noses out. The whole scenario has been prompted by the desire to expand Nato further eastwards. I am not sure we should really wanting to form pacts with counties like Ukraine whose relationship with Russia is such that it would be difficult to decide exactly who were on the "good side. "

The BBC coverage yesterday was poor in relation to the opposition to any UK intervention. It hardly got any coverage and little was made of "Stop the War" issuing a statement. The coverage of Jermey Corbyn criticising UK intervention was framed in a context with both showed the lack of interest within parliament of any political parties to view this matter with any caution and the was at the same time typcial of the BBC's distain for JC. In my opinion, he is one of the few politians in the UK talking any sense.

Without doubt, Putin's actions are atrocious. However, no one seems to be reporting just how the Russian public are viewing this and whether they share his anymosity towards Ukraine. Unless this de-escalates, I can see this eventually affecting the Baltic states and even Poland. The West's decision to arm the Ukraine army was rash and irresponsible. In my opinion, the West should step aside and let things take their course. I am not convinced that Putin would ultimately survive a protracted and dangerous war in Ukraine and think that this has the potential for him to ultimately undermine himself.

Nato involvement will only exacerbate the problem. I am more and more convinced that we should quit Nato as soon as is possible. Just as well that we can no longer be part of an EU army. Does anyone else agree that it is time for the UK to become neutral ?
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I totally disagree as usual <laugh>

You’re blaming the UK for what Putin is doing. It’s not our fault. Well it’s only our fault in the sense that we have shown so much weakness on the western front that Putin has not been afraid to do this. Putin is a wolf. He always has been. It takes wolves to keep wolves at bay. Instead we have elected sheep who pander to each other about climate change and gender pronouns instead of reality.

Ultimately we need to build as many military alliances as possible to achieve peace, not break them.

I am not advocating for all out war but it is important that we back Ukraine in anyway we can. Otherwise Putin will keep going.

We have seen what happens when you let dictators take “just one country”. And that was the third reich.
 
Osvaldorama said:
I totally disagree as usual <laugh>

You’re blaming the UK for what Putin is doing. It’s not our fault. Well it’s only our fault in the sense that we have shown so much weakness on the western front that Putin has not been afraid to do this. Putin is a wolf. He always has been. It takes wolves to keep wolves at bay. Instead we have elected sheep who pander to each other about climate change and gender pronouns instead of reality.

Ultimately we need to build as many military alliances as possible to achieve peace, not break them.

I am not advocating for all out war but it is important that we back Ukraine in anyway we can. Otherwise Putin will keep going.

We have seen what happens when you let dictators take “just one country”. And that was the third reich.
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This is entirely the fault of Western intervnetion in Ukraine which has given Putin just the excuse he has needed. The invasion would never have happened if the west had not tried to bring Ukraine within it's sphere of influence. I do not think interfering will benefit either Ukraine or the west and tje risk is so great that it is not worth getting involved. This move will ultimately prove to be Putin's undoing .

I am not sure that the EU's threat of serious sanctions will help either. If they are serious about preventing Russia from modernising, my fear would be that it will force Russia to take what it needs and the aggression will spread further.

It will be interesting to see how the invasion of Ukraine emboldens China with Tawiwan.
 
Ian Thumwood said:
This is entirely the fault of Western intervnetion in Ukraine which has given Putin just the excuse he has needed. The invasion would never have happened if the west had not tried to bring Ukraine within it's sphere of influence. I do not think interfering will benefit either Ukraine or the west and tje risk is so great that it is not worth getting involved. This move will ultimately prove to be Putin's undoing .

I am not sure that the EU's threat of serious sanctions will help either. If they are serious about preventing Russia from modernising, my fear would be that it will force Russia to take what it needs and the aggression will spread further.

It will be interesting to see how the invasion of Ukraine emboldens China with Tawiwan.
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I believe most of what you said is Putin’s propaganda. The nato part is just one part of this.

He has been buying gold and selling US treasuries for a long time to prepare for this.

He is racist towards Ukrainians and also is incentivised by Ukraine’s natural resources.

The big question is; If we don’t intervene, where does he stop?
 
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It is not Putin's propaganda. Nata has recruited many ex-Soviet states and this has been seen as threatening by Putin. The whole raison d'etre of NATO has ceased to be to protect the west but to reduce any threat from Russia,
 
Ian Thumwood said:
It is not Putin's propaganda. Nata has recruited many ex-Soviet states and this has been seen as threatening by Putin. The whole raison d'etre of NATO has ceased to be to protect the west but to reduce any threat from Russia,
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Mate this is pure Russian propaganda. Ukraine is a sovereign nation. All we have done is recognise that.
 
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Ian Thumwood said:
It is not Putin's propaganda. Nata has recruited many ex-Soviet states and this has been seen as threatening by Putin. The whole raison d'etre of NATO has ceased to be to protect the west but to reduce any threat from Russia,
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Sorry man, hard disagree.

If a sovereign state chooses to be in NATO then that is their choice, this isn’t some form of Western imperialism, it is a vital alliance to secure our society against aggressors.

Russias actions in Ukraine prove the importance of a strong NATO.

It is the other way around in reality, we are paying the price for not going hard enough on Russia, they should have been cut out of the international community after Crimea and bankrupted, military defences along Russian borders should have been (extremely) heavily reinforced immediately at that point. Putin only understands strength.

In this instance that initial weak non-confrontational response has allowed a larger war to happen in the longer term.
 
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Shandy_top_89 said:
Sorry man, hard disagree.

If a sovereign state chooses to be in NATO then that is their choice, this isn’t some form of Western imperialism, it is a vital alliance to secure our society against aggressors.

Russias actions in Ukraine prove the importance of a strong NATO.

It is the other way around in reality, we are paying the price for not going hard enough on Russia, they should have been cut out of the international community after Crimea and bankrupted, military defences along Russian borders should have been (extremely) heavily reinforced immediately at that point. Putin only understands strength.
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This. The Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. That's over 30 years ago. Just because a country is ex-Soviet, it doesn't give Putin the right to decide it belongs to Russia and hence invade it. The man's a brutal dictator and the West hasn't been nearly tough enough on him and Russia.
 
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Shandy_top_89 said:
Sorry man, hard disagree.

If a sovereign state chooses to be in NATO then that is their choice, this isn’t some form of Western imperialism, it is a vital alliance to secure our society against aggressors.

Russias actions in Ukraine prove the importance of a strong NATO.

It is the other way around in reality, we are paying the price for not going hard enough on Russia, they should have been cut out of the international community after Crimea and bankrupted, military defences along Russian borders should have been (extremely) heavily reinforced immediately at that point. Putin only understands strength.

In this instance that initial weak non-confrontational response has allowed a larger war to happen in the longer term.
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Especially when you look at the results here. Putin has talked about how the Baltics aren't sovereign states either, but wayward possessions of Russia. But they aren't getting invaded. Because they joined NATO specifically to ward off the possibility of getting invaded by Russia.
 
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Tom Tugendhat, the Conservative chair of the Commons foreign affairs committee, said President Putin had been “encouraged” to launch a full invasion of Ukraine by the limited nature of the sanctions package unveiled by the UK earlier this week.

Stables, doors and horses.

Ban dual nationality and revoke tier one visas.
 
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