Off Topic Politics Thread

[Osvaldorama]

I should add that this is from an aesthetic POV. Rowner in Gosport is the naval equivalent.
This chat could lead on to a discusión about whether a strong military is beneficial to a nation's económic and social well-being! Having sampled living in Russia in 2013, when Putin was in the process of rebuilding Russia's military might, I would say not as I could see where money could be better spent as on its crumbling roads, public buildings (the stairwells at the Ural University were also in a dangerous state, and my friends there thought that the standard of public education was not as good as in previous years.

North Korea and the USA are other examples where money spent on the military, would be better spent improving services and infrastructure.

Having a strong military also has a social and cultural impact on a nation's social and cultural mindset. We see it in the UK! When I lived in Fareham I would often watch BBC South and every week there was a topic around the armed forces such as the role the Spitfire played in WW2. Why bring it 60 or 70 years later.

As a nation I would rather celebrate the engineering achievements of Isambard Brunel, the writings of our great writers, our scientific geniuses, our arts and músic.

The problem is Ides, the only reason you think not having a military budget is a good idea is because you have the luxury and freedom to live in a society that has a huge military budget.

 

[StJabbo1]

The problem is Ides, the only reason you think not having a military budget is a good idea is because you have the luxury and freedom to live in a society that has a huge military budget.

The repurposing of the nuclear submarine fleet to provide power to towns and cities around the UK will go some way to addressing the disproportionate spending on military projects.

 

[Lemons and Oranges]

The repurposing of the nuclear submarine fleet to provide power to towns and cities around the UK will go some way to addressing the disproportionate spending on military projects.

As well as regenerating Britain's woefully underused canal and river network, to aid the transportation of the submarines to where they are required. It's Roosevelt's New Deal all over again!

 

[StJabbo1]

As well as regenerating Britain's woefully underused canal and river network, to aid the transportation of the submarines to where they are required. It's Roosevelt's New Deal all over again!

The redundant military facilities can be upgraded and developed to aid the housing crisis and benefit the communities that surround them. New Deal? It's the real deal.

 

[Osvaldorama]

The redundant military facilities can be upgraded and developed to aid the housing crisis and benefit the communities that surround them. New Deal? It's the real deal.

Putin has shown very recently what happens when the West shows weakness.

Like I said, it’s very easy to be anti-war and anti-military when we are sat in a country that has been peaceful for decades. Unfortunately the reality is that if we got rid of our nuclear Arsenal and military, within weeks life would instantly get worse and more violent as we are invaded by a foreign power.

The issue is (and has always been) - violence is unavoidable as someone, somewhere will project their power over you if you let them.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Putin has shown very recently what happens when the West shows weakness.

Like I said, it’s very easy to be anti-war and anti-military when we are sat in a country that has been peaceful for decades. Unfortunately the reality is that if we got rid of our nuclear Arsenal and military, within weeks life would instantly get worse and more violent as we are invaded by a foreign power.

Canada?

 

[The Ides of March]

Putin has shown very recently what happens when the West shows weakness.

Like I said, it’s very easy to be anti-war and anti-military when we are sat in a country that has been peaceful for decades. Unfortunately the reality is that if we got rid of our nuclear Arsenal and military, within weeks life would instantly get worse and more violent as we are invaded by a foreign power.

I was/am critical of all countries that spend enormous amounts on their military. The main culprits being Russia, North Korea and the USA. I can see your POV that you couldn't do away with the military at the stroke of a pen. Nor do I.believe an alien power would come marching in if the UK was defenceless. I feel the way China goes about its business in other countries is more effective, for better or worse, than having massive invading forces which is so.19th/20th Century!

 

[StJabbo1]

Putin has shown very recently what happens when the West shows weakness.

Like I said, it’s very easy to be anti-war and anti-military when we are sat in a country that has been peaceful for decades. Unfortunately the reality is that if we got rid of our nuclear Arsenal and military, within weeks life would instantly get worse and more violent as we are invaded by a foreign power.

The issue is (and has always been) - violence is unavoidable as someone, somewhere will project their power over you if you let them.

Invaded by a foreign power within weeks. That was meant to be in blue wasn't it? Who's advocating disbanding the military? You do know the armed forces are being reduced to 72,500 over the next few years don't. By the way the subs are a bit of fun, light-hearted humour it appears to have escaped you.

 

[Osvaldorama]

I was/am critical of all countries that spend enormous amounts on their military. The main culprits being Russia, North Korea and the USA. I can see your POV that you couldn't do away with the military at the stroke of a pen. Nor do I.believe an alien power would come marching in if the UK was defenceless. I feel the way China goes about its business in other countries is more effective, for better or worse, than having massive invading forces which is so.19th/20th Century!

Unfortunately the problem is that military spending is kind of the entire point of the military.

The entire historical global military industry can be broken down into some simple rules:

- Property can only truly be considered yours if you can defend it by projecting power successfully

- Whoever can project the most power and defend their property more successfully can build the safest and most prosperous society for those that subscribe to their rules

- To build the best defences and project the most power; you have to spend money.

Therefore these rules can essentially be distilled into; whoever spends the most money on military controls the world. This is why countries do this.

Ultimately, it’s game theory and if anyone stops this spending and loses to a new weapon or military innovation, another country will win and wipe the other ones out. It has happened time and time again throughout not just human history but also nature itself

 

[The Ides of March]

Invaded by a foreign power within weeks. That was meant to be in blue wasn't it? Who's advocating disbanding the military? You do know the armed forces are being reduced to 72,500 over the next few years don't. By the way the subs are a bit of fun, light-hearted humour it appears to have escaped you.

Is that across all three services? What will youngsters do in the northern towns do now, as the armed forces was seen as a way of escaping the drudgery of their surroundings as well as providing an opportunity for betterment.

 

[The Ides of March]

Unfortunately the problem is that military spending is kind of the entire point of the military.

The entire historical global military industry can be broken down into some simple rules:

- Property can only truly be considered yours if you can defend it by projecting power successfully

- Whoever can project the most power and defend their property more successfully can build the safest and most prosperous society for those that subscribe to their rules

- To build the best defences and project the most power; you have to spend money.

Therefore these rules can essentially be distilled into; whoever spends the most money on military controls the world. This is why countries do this.

Ultimately, it’s game theory and if anyone stops this spending and loses this innovation another country will win and wipe the other one out.

That is the convencional thinking. What about Japan? And Costa Rica which is rich in resources, doesn 't have a military is not like to be invaded anytine soon apart.from eager tourists.

 

[Osvaldorama]

That is the convencional thinking. What about Japan? And Costa Rica which is rich in resources, doesn 't have a military is not like to be invaded anytine soon apart.from eager tourists.

Look at the alliances they have formed. Japan has an alliance with the USA which means they can’t be invaded without the USA being involved.

I don’t know about Costa Rica but I assume that if you look into it there will be alliances or treaties somewhere which helps to protect them.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Invaded by a foreign power within weeks. That was meant to be in blue wasn't it? Who's advocating disbanding the military? You do know the armed forces are being reduced to 72,500 over the next few years don't. By the way the subs are a bit of fun, light-hearted humour it appears to have escaped you.

You are so weird sometimes mate.
I was replying specifically to someone who was talking about disbanding the military.
Why are you trying to control what I write? I can be lighthearted too but I’m in the politics thread and I enjoy talking about politics.

 

[StJabbo1]

You are so weird sometimes mate.
I was replying specifically to someone who was talking about disbanding the military.
Why are you trying to control what I write? I can be lighthearted too but I’m in the politics thread and I enjoy talking about politics.

You replied to me, nowhere have I advocate disbanding the military so if not me who?
Weird is saying we would be invaded within weeks just so wrong. How am I trying to control what you write by the way?

 

[StJabbo1]

Is that across all three services? What will youngsters do in the northern towns do now, as the armed forces was seen as a way of escaping the drudgery of their surroundings as well as providing an opportunity for betterment.

And a way of staying out of prison.

 

[The Ides of March]

You replied to me, nowhere have I advocate disbanding the military so if not me who?
Weird is saying we would be invaded within weeks just so wrong. How am I trying to control what you write by the way?

I am not sure that anyone here was advocating doing away with the military. For me, I was looking at the morality of Putin spending vast amounts on Russia's military at the expense of expenditure on other aspects that would improve the fortunes of Russian people in general. I do however, think it is right to debate the purpose of a nation's military and the impact this has on a nation's psyche.

 

[The Ides of March]

And a way if staying out of prison.

That is so sad!!

 

[The Ides of March]

That is so sad!!

If the UK was still in the EU these lads could jump on a ferry and find work in Germany as happened in the 80s .

 

[tomw24]

Massive cyber attack on Ukrainian government websites.

 

[StJabbo1]

If the UK was still in the EU these lads could jump on a ferry and find work in Germany as happened in the 80s .

That would make a good story line for a TV series.