Off Topic Politics Thread

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It is an interesting one though because the police are the ones acting. They need to act in the public interest. If a police action puts kids into danger should it go ahead? The rights and wrongs of the protestors has to come second to the rights and wrongs of the police action.

What if the whole protest was organised and enacted by young people?

It feels to me like the actions of some protestors is not the real Canadian scandal. It seems like awful policing and failure to deal with the protest is the scandal.

 

[StJabbo1]

Different approaches to Indigenous or Black-led protests. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/16/ottawa-protests-police-face-pressure-over-response
https://www.aptnnews.ca/national-ne...-vax-protest-reveals-pure-racism-say-critics/

"The perceived apathy or impotence of the police when dealing with the convoy activists has also underscored what activists and academics say is a double standard in how officers respond towards Indigenous or Black-led protests.

On Tuesday, video of Royal Canadian Mounted police embracing protesters at a dismantled blockade in southern Alberta laid bare the stark contrast. Only months before, the RCMP faced criticism for beating anti-logging protesters, ripping off their masks and using pepper spray on them. And in September, Toronto police violently disbanded protests supporting people living in a homeless encampment.

Akwasi Owusu-Bempah, a sociology professor at the University of Toronto who specializes in policing and social inequality, said recent events show police are capable of using restraint during protests.

“I know that that same level of restraint is not exercised at other times and with other populations,” he said. “There are some very clear differences between how a largely – although not wholly – white protest group is being policed here, and how, for example, Black and Indigenous people are policed when they’re exercising their right to peaceful protest,” he said."

 

[saintrichie123]

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[StJabbo1]

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[All_Southampton_FC]

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Again, Russell is a breath of fresh air right now. He speaks a lot of sense.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Censorship, appropriating property, freezing assets, brute force policing… if canada was in the Middle East, the USA would probably have invaded it already

 

[Gregm1988]

Censorship, appropriating property, freezing assets, brute force policing… if canada was in the Middle East, the USA would probably have invaded it already

Sounds like a comment made on Triggernometry the other day. Things is - it isn’t wrong

 

[San Tejón]

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Note that he will only go after the Russians making and moving money around the UK market IF Russia invade Ukraine.
Why not go after them anyway?
But when they do find the “ultimate beneficiaries within”, the Russian companies, they will probably find the Tory party at the heart of some of them, by virtue of the donations received.
And “people will draw the conclusion that aggression pays and that might is right”. As in the Police Bill the government is pushing through?

 

[StJabbo1]

Note that he will only go after the Russians making and moving money around the UK market IF Russia invade Ukraine.
Why not go after them anyway?
But when they do find the “ultimate beneficiaries within”, the Russian companies, they will probably find the Tory party at the heart of some of them, by virtue of the donations received.
And “people will draw the conclusion that aggression pays and that might is right”. As in the Police Bill the government is pushing through?

Time to watch what's happening with the bill, we'll see what the government does about the Lords amendments there may be another bill to add the powers removed. The Lords amendments will be discussed 28-02.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56400751
"The government has been defeated in the House of Lords on some of the bill's most contentious parts, including plans to give the police new powers to stop protests in England and Wales if they are deemed to be too noisy and disruptive.

The Lords also added some proposals of their own to the bill, including one to make misogyny a hate crime.

The bill now faces going back and forth between the Commons and Lords until agreement is reached.

But some of the measures that the Lords rejected cannot now feature in the final legislation, because of the way the government introduced them."

Some dissenting views:-
Michael Barton and Peter Fahy, the former chief constables of Durham Constabulary and Greater Manchester Police respectively, said in March 2021 that the law threatened civil liberties and constituted a politically-motivated move towards paramilitary policing."

"Former Remain and Leave organisations have signed an open letter calling for the government to withdraw its proposed Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill “in its entirety”.
"Signatories of the open letter include Best for Britain CEO Naomi Smith; pro-Brexit campaigner Richard Tice, leader of the Reform UK party (formerly the Brexit Party) and Leave Means Leave; Tom Brufatto, former lead organiser of the People’s Vote demonstrations and now co-director of March for Change; and Anna Bird, CEO of the European Movement UK."
https://www.bestforbritain.org/opposition_to_policing_bill_bridges_brexit_divide

Parliament’s Joint Committee on Human Rights said its proposals are “oppressive and wrong”.
https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/issue/policing-bill-amendments-are-a-dangerous-power-grab/

 

[Schad]

Sounds like a comment made on Triggernometry the other day. Things is - it isn’t wrong

I mean, the protesters were allowed to remain unimpeded for weeks. Meanwhile, in the US, a number of states passed laws to shield people from prosecution who ran over BLM protesters who were blocking roads for a few hours at a time.

https://www.vox.com/2021/4/25/22367019/gop-laws-oklahoma-iowa-florida-floyd-blm-protests-police

It's a very, very silly comparison. Calling the incredibly soft touch used by police with the Convoy "brute force" suggests a complete lack of awareness of how police normally handle protests. I agree that the police should not be using violence toward unarmed protestors, but ye gods if you think that the level of violence here is beyond the pale, you're going to be truly shocked when you find out about the level of violence applied to protesters in the US throughout 2021.

 

[Gregm1988]

I mean, the protesters were allowed to remain unimpeded for weeks. Meanwhile, in the US, a number of states passed laws to shield people from prosecution who ran over BLM protesters who were blocking roads for a few hours at a time.

https://www.vox.com/2021/4/25/22367019/gop-laws-oklahoma-iowa-florida-floyd-blm-protests-police

It's a very, very silly comparison. Calling the incredibly soft touch used by police with the Convoy "brute force" suggests a complete lack of awareness of how police normally handle protests. I agree that the police should not be using violence toward unarmed protestors, but ye gods if you think that the level of violence here is beyond the pale, you're going to be truly shocked when you find out about the level of violence applied to protesters in the US throughout 2021.

The comment I replied to mentioned four things. Not just “brute force policing”. You have addressed one of the four - clearly the one that can be refuted. Although using Vox as a source is functionally the same as using the Daily Wire. It is not impartial in any way

As to some of the others - I am not aware of BLM being censored - indeed football players in the U.K. still do one of their gestures. They also haven’t had assets appropriated or frozen.

Indeed there is a reason why some on the right now scornfully say BLM stands for something else (with the M being Mansions).

And I posted a link from the bbc about them using donation money to bail someone who was implicated in a murder plot against a politician. I’m not saying he should be refused bail especially if a court set an amount. But donation money to pay for it? Whilst some are only half heartedly condemning restrictions on donations in the Canadian situation

I know it can be considered whataboutism but always try to play a word replacement game with this. What if the an organisation was using donation money to pay the bail for accused neo-nazis plotting to someone like AOC? There would be outrage and calls to stop it. But I haven’t seen this on the BLM thing. Indeed very little attention has been called to it

Equally it is important to take a step back and look at who you are talking about as well with regards to the police brutality. Red states in the US vs. a Canada led by someone who claims to be a liberal. It may be unfair but heavy handed crackdowns always look worse when performed by the left.

Conservatives are always given the “party of law and order” badge - regardless of how effective they actually are (and the answer is not very). So they “get away” with more. Same as how the left is always scrutinised much more on the economy that is reasonable. It isn’t fair but it just comes with the territory

 

[Schad]

The comment I replied to mentioned four things. Not just “brute force policing”. You have addressed one of the four - clearly the one that can be refuted. Although using Vox as a source is functionally the same as using the Daily Wire. It is not impartial in any way

As to some of the others - I am not aware of BLM being censored - indeed football players in the U.K. still do one of their gestures. They also haven’t had assets appropriated or frozen.

I'd suggest looking at all of the anti-"CRT" bills currently being passed into law in conservative-run states, which make it illegal to teach about racial divisions (or that gay people exist, because reasons).

Indeed there is a reason why some on the right now scornfully say BLM stands for something else (with the M being Mansions).

And I posted a link from the bbc about them using donation money to bail someone who was implicated in a murder plot against a politician. I’m not saying he should be refused bail especially if a court set an amount. But donation money to pay for it? Whilst some are only half heartedly condemning restrictions on donations in the Canadian situation

That's a really bizarre situation, not least because the bail was set low. But if you want the short version: they provided cash bail so that he could get mental health treatment while on house arrest.

https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...ooting-suspect-bail-quintez-brown/6803494001/

I know it can be considered whataboutism but always try to play a word replacement game with this. What if the an organisation was using donation money to pay the bail for accused neo-nazis plotting to someone like AOC? There would be outrage and calls to stop it. But I haven’t seen this on the BLM thing. Indeed very little attention has been called to it

The politician who was shot at is a Democrat.

Equally it is important to take a step back and look at who you are talking about as well with regards to the police brutality. Red states in the US vs. a Canada led by someone who claims to be a liberal. It may be unfair but heavy handed crackdowns always look worse when performed by the left.

Conservatives are always given the “party of law and order” badge - regardless of how effective they actually are (and the answer is not very). So they “get away” with more. Same as how the left is always scrutinised much more on the economy that is reasonable. It isn’t fair but it just comes with the territory

Again, you should look at how they're treated even in Canada. Signed, someone who has been tear gassed while protesting in Canada when there was a Liberal government.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

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Again, Russell is a breath of fresh air right now. He speaks a lot of sense.

I have lots of thoughts about Russell, but remember, he's much the mainstream media now. 5 million subscribers. The Times gets 600k readers. So he's far more popular (and remember, he's populist, it's what he made his name being) than the supposed mainstream. Once you get to those figures, you are the mainstream.

 

[Osvaldorama]

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Crazy.

I just don’t understand how - even if you’re against the truckers protests - anyone can think the government and police force acting in this way is OK.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

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Crazy.

I just don’t understand how - even if you’re against the truckers protests - anyone can think the government and police force acting in this way is OK.

It's possible to think that the police actions are wrong, and that the truckers are also wrong. Generally speaking, it's also possible to find a solution to a problem where both sides can feel satisfaction. Life isn't a game of football where you always want your side to win.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

It's possible to think that the police actions are wrong, and that the truckers are also wrong. Generally speaking, it's also possible to find a solution to a problem where both sides can feel satisfaction. Life isn't a game of football where you always want your side to win.

So much this.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

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[Osvaldorama]

It's possible to think that the police actions are wrong, and that the truckers are also wrong. Generally speaking, it's also possible to find a solution to a problem where both sides can feel satisfaction. Life isn't a game of football where you always want your side to win.

I agree. This is exactly what I’ve been trying to say across both this thread and the covid thread.

However a few posters on here would side with government overreach no matter what evidence you present to them.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Good to see Jeff Bezos putting his purchase of the Washington Post to good use.

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[Gregm1988]

I agree. This is exactly what I’ve been trying to say across both this thread and the covid thread.

However a few posters on here would side with government overreach no matter what evidence you present to them.

Reading the comments on that tweet where the policeman just got physical with no warning was pretty astonishing. People just queuing up and falling over themselves to condone it

When there are very similar videos of police behaving this way to individuals that are considered marginalised - and the reaction online is pretty much the opposite

The latter examples are often worse but the point remains the same - overreach

I will always remember how disgusted I was with the way some Australian police were treating an aboriginal woman when I visited. In the middle of the city centre they had her on the floor with her hands handcuffed behind her back as she was screaming (she was potentially high and/or drunk). Two white male officers in those f’n stupid uniforms they wear (short sleeves and baseball caps). To me it was obvious they were making a show of it. Making sure everyone saw it to feed the narrative out there

That is not the role of the police. And neither was the action in this video. If you are confident that you are acting appropriately then you should have no problem being filmed and certainly you shouldn’t be getting violent to stop it from happening