1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

?

Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    14,743
    Likes Received:
    16,557
    Read your history and make your own decision mate.

    Sorry at work so might go silent
     
    #72641
  2. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    14,383
    Likes Received:
    16,196
    I wasnt aware that democracy was a thing anymore. Just a word thrown about.
     
    #72642
  3. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    Brexit made no difference, because the key is energy. The UK is not reliant on Russian gas supplies as EU countries are, particularly Germany. The EU countries cannot even decide between themselves what to do about Ukraine, so what good would it do throwing the UK into the mix? The UK is much better not being saddled by all the continental uncertainty and conflicts of interests. The UK has done more for the Ukraine over this, than any EU member, and this has been recognised by the Ukrainian government.
     
    #72643
    rangercol likes this.
  4. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    It's a "no", because they weren't

    Fully understand about your work
     
    #72644
  5. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2011
    Messages:
    14,953
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    Is there or is there not a Russian majority amongst the population of the Crimea ? Did they or did they not vote for independence ? There's no point in saying that a referendum there was not allowed by the constitution of the Ukraine because the semi fascist regime which took over power in Kiev scrapped their constitution which made it redundant. How many people died as a result of the Russian takeover there (less than 5 I believe) - does this indicate that the population of the Crimea were against Russian involvement ? Apparently nobody in that part of the World actually believes that an invasion of the Ukraine will take place - not in Moscow or in Kiev. Only Washington is talking the whole theme up along with the UK - based on evidence which Kiev is, apparently, not aware of. So why should Germany simply go along with the wave of propaganda coming out of Washington and London without question ?

    The reason why the Russians pulled all their troops out of Eastern Europe was under the condition of their neutrality ie. that American forces would not be subsequently stationed there. This type of arrangement is not without precedence because the Red Army initially occupied Austria at the end of the War - and then subsequently withdrew under the condition of Austrian neutrality. It is not unreasonable to want that your immediate neighbours remain neutral in the event of armed conflict. And Russia - through bitter experience has realized the need for buffer zones around its territory. To turn this question on its head - if Scotland voted for independence and then invited the Russians to place their military bases there (which would be their sovereign right according to you) how would Westminster react ?
     
    #72645
  6. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    70,098
    Likes Received:
    57,635
    Bit long for me this. Can I have the exec summary?
     
    #72646
  7. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    There is a majority of Russians in Crimea which was part of Ukraine's sovereign territory. When Putin's and his disguised troops put forward the independence vote, there was no box to check for those who wished to remain part of the Ukraine. That is Putin's democracy which you defend. As to whether there will be an invasion of the whole of Ukraine, who knows? Possibly not even Putin. Washington is not talking up the possibility - that is a ridiculous argument because if Putin wanted to prove Washington wrong, he could stand down his 100,000 troops. But he isn't. Nevertheless, if Putin does invade, no doubt the Putin apologists will claim it is all Washington's fault.

    I can tell you now, if Scotland became independent and allowed Russian bases, the remainder of the UK would NOT invade Scotland. It would bolster its defences and upgrade its monitoring of Russian movements. All the current problems stem from the sociopathic leader, Vladimir Putin. If Gorbachev was still in power, I don't believe any of this would have happened and agreements would have been reached. You seem to be a supporter of Putin, Cologne, but I don't want to put words in your mouth. Are you?
     
    #72647
    rangercol and ELLERS like this.
  8. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2011
    Messages:
    14,953
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    Agreements were reached with Gorbachov which have not been honoured Goldie and that lies at the heart of todays problems - namely that there would be no eastward expansion of Nato after Russian withdrawal. You have asked a direct question at the end which I will attempt to answer - I am not a supporter of Putin (whatever that means), I am not really a 'supporter' of anyone because I do not believe there is a politician anywhere who represents my ideas. The British politician who I respected the most was Tony Benn if that gives you any rough guide. I can't imagine ever wanting to go out for a beer with Putin - however I don't believe that any bumbling figure such as we have in the West could actually rule over a country of Russia's size. Gorbachov was the closest to someone I could have imagined going for a pint with, but he failed to rule Russia.
     
    #72648
  9. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    30,948
    Likes Received:
    28,985
    Four legs good, two legs bad.
     
    #72649
  10. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    But no formal agreement exists by which NATO agreed no eastward expansion. I have read that this assertion by Russia is a myth - but if you can point out an agreement, I'd be interested to see it.

    Yes, Tony Benn was an interesting politician. I'm surprised you chose him because he was adamantly against the EU.

    I'm glad to hear you wouldn't go for a pint with Putin (for your sake!). It's worse still to drink his tea. Ask Litvinenko
     
    #72650
    rangercol likes this.

  11. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2011
    Messages:
    14,953
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-...on-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early
    A bit of a long read Goldie - just pick out the bits that matter if you want.
     
    #72651
  12. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    14,743
    Likes Received:
    16,557
    The regime in Guatemala was far from democratic you are most correct.
    It was backed and set up by the USA in 1954 after a coup.
    Dunno the exact number or indigenous people were killed or disappeared during the regime, but runs into the many thousands.

    Sorry for the quick reply inbetween jobs
     
    #72652
    BobbyD and Goldhawk-Road like this.
  13. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    14,743
    Likes Received:
    16,557
    A561019E-EB01-4FD6-AEB3-119C2DE8BBA3.png
    @Goldhawk-Road
    I met one of the Rebel Commandantes while in Guatemala, as she was the aunt of one of my exs….the stories i heard were horrific.
     
    #72653
  14. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,442
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    #72654
  15. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    21,705
    Likes Received:
    6,777
    Energy is not the key for Russia. The absence of an unified Western response to its surrounding of Ukraine on 3 sides may well be. Brexit is a major contributor to the lack of unity in Europe and mainly due Boris Liar's continual denial of the Brexit agreement terms regarding NI., with the US as well.
     
    #72655
  16. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    Of course it’s all because of Brexit. <doh>… in fact when Putin invaded Crimea in 2014 he knew Brexit would happen 2 years later? Actually <doh><doh> for such a ridiculous post.
     
    #72656
    kiwiqpr and Uber_Hoop like this.
  17. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    70,098
    Likes Received:
    57,635
    Brexit wouldn’t have happened without dodgy Russian money so it fits nicely.
     
    #72657
  18. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    That was the most idiotic post I have read on here for sometime. Best you stay away from it Watford… don’t associate yourself with that mate. It’s the sort of thing Femi would write.
     
    #72658
  19. Star of David Bardsley

    Star of David Bardsley 2023 Funniest Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    70,098
    Likes Received:
    57,635
    I’ve been told regularly that the EU is about to fall apart, albeit by the same people who call the EU an all-powerful cult. That suits Putin.
     
    #72659
    QPR Oslo likes this.
  20. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    The EU is failing apart daily but sadly the remain fanatics can’t see past their Guardian tinted glasses. Best thing we ever did was to get out of that club… a club that didn’t like us anyway.
    it’s just naive beyond stupidity to try and link Ukraine to Brexit… seriously people need to read up a bit more.
    Right I will let you cry over your Lattes as I am watching the football.
     
    #72660

Share This Page